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How on earth can it be a monopoly when it has the market share it does? I wish people would stop conflating Apple as a monopoly - their have their own platform

How on earth can it be a monopoly when it has the market share it does? I wish people would stop conflating Apple as a monopoly - their have their own platform (one of many widely available) and many people choose to use it. Do I agree with all their App Store behaviours? Obviously not, but it doesn't make them a monopoly. They're not 'abusing' their power - the App Store has always been this way. It's a way of delivering sand boxed apps that fit guidelines. Apple aren't going to stop you downloading an app off the internet and running it on your mac anytime soon.

benrbray 6y ago
In terms of market share, I'd say it's akin to a regional monopoly. But that's not entirely what I meant. In my view, phones are general purpose computers. Apple also takes this view, which is the reason they have opened up a software marketplace on their devices. Just like with Amazon, there are thousands of companies whose revenue depends almost exclusively on their ability to compete in the marketplace set up by Apple. In this scenario, both Apple and Amazon are notorious for abusing their control of the marketplace to disadvantage third-party sellers in favor of first-party products / hardware / software. If a phone is NOT a general purpose computer, then Apple should disband the app store and only allow first-party apps to run. If a phone IS a general purpose computer, then Apple has an obligation to treat participants in the marketplace fairly, either by relaxing the app review process, or by allowing third-party marketplaces. They cannot have it both ways. Legally speaking, Apple may not need to change anything. However, I'm talking about how things SHOULD be, not how they ARE.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Opening up the platform ruins it. The walled garden is exactly why iPhones are so popular and iOS developers so successful.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    iOS developers are not successful in general. The top 1% of App Store developers make the vast majority of the App Store revenue. Apple doesn't seem to care, because they get their 30% regardless of how the other 70% of the revenue is distributed.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      iOS App Developers make around $35B a year. I don’t directly get paid much by it anymore because I shut down my App company. But I have made a very good contracting rate and very high salaries for iOS development directly because of that $35B. Your own app company doesn’t have to be a winner, when the winners need a massive number of developers and have such a fountain of cash to pay them with.
      - _qulr 6y ago
        > Your own app company doesn’t have to be a winner, when the winners need a massive number of developers and have such a fountain of cash to pay them with. I agree that the walled garden tends to create a few huge winners among App Store developers, and mostly losers among the other App Store developers. I don't think this situation is healthy, even if the few winners need a lot of engineers.
        scarface74 6y ago
        If it is caused by the App Store, why do we see the same distribution in every single vertical where there is a platform?
        _qulr 6y ago
        We don't. For example, Mac software before the Mac app store had a much better distribution.
        scarface74 6y ago
        I’ve been around the Mac market off an on since the 90s. You had a few small software vendors that could make a living but not really. But you see the same distribution in music, books, podcasts, etc.
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  I disagree. The iPhone is a niche in terms of computing access. I wouldn’t want it to be first party apps only. The App Store being only open to apples approval is what makes the platform what it is. In an ideal world we’d be able to side load apps natively, but it’s not a dealbreaker for me - I can always jailbreak. App Stores on phones should be held to different standards to those on PCs, I feel.
gamblor956 6y ago
How on earth can it be a monopoly when it has the market share it does? It's not a monopoly, it's an abuse of market power, which does not require monopoly status but which is still forbidden by antitrust laws. It doesn't matter that they've always done it this way, because the antitrust laws have existed for longer than Apple has. And many of Apple's arbitrary decisions have no basis in security or ensuring family-friendly products. They exist simply to maintain or bolster Apple's market position.
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  See, this is where I disagree - but not entirely. Of course these decisions are made to bolster Apples market position - however, the important point here is that they do it through making great products. That’s always been the Apple priority. They’ve been making top of the line products consistently for two decades. These decisions bolster the products and ergo bolster market conditions. Making products the consumer is satisfied with is not anti consumer behaviour. What else can you ask for from a purchase?
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    If Apple wants to control its developers, it should hire them and pay them wages and benefits. The app store is just another version of the gig economy, and Apple is stomping around it like a typical tyrannical boss. Of course that is anti-consumer behaviour. It means Apple lacks a professional and credible relationship with its developers, and that clearly lowers the quality, the variety, and the accessibility of the apps for sale in the store.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Making products the consumer is satisfied with is not anti consumer behaviour. What else can you ask for from a purchase? ??? That's some powerful kool-aid. The issue is not that Apple makes shiny-looking products that many people like, and the quality of Apple's physical products is not a defense to their actions in other markets. The issue is that Apple is abusing it's market position derived from the sale of those shiny products to bolster its market position in other markets like mobile apps, SaaS (see, e.g., Spotify vs Apple Music). That is what is illegal.
newbie578 6y ago
A marketshare above >50% is a literal definition of monopoly... I wish people would stop trying to defend Apple without getting the facts right. If something "has always been this way" that doesn't make it right, especially if you are engaging in anti-competitive behaviour which the App Store is a perfect example (Apple is the Judge, Jury and Executioner). We are lucky Apple was near bankruptcy (although my personal belief is that we were not lucky enough since it still exists) when the Internet was growing, otherwise I have no doubt we would today have "select" websites which Apple approves and takes it's mafia tax. Want to show your blog over Safari to iOS users? Give us 30% or otherwise GTFO.

benrbray 6y ago

In terms of market share, I'd say it's akin to a regional monopoly. But that's not entirely what I meant. In my view, phones are general purpose computers. Apple also takes this view, which is the reason they have opened up a software marketplace on their devices. Just like with Amazon, there are thousands of companies whose revenue depends almost exclusively on their ability to compete in the marketplace set up by Apple. In this scenario, both Apple and Amazon are notorious for abusing their control of the marketplace to disadvantage third-party sellers in favor of first-party products / hardware / software. If a phone is NOT a general purpose computer, then Apple should disband the app store and only allow first-party apps to run. If a phone IS a general purpose computer, then Apple has an obligation to treat participants in the marketplace fairly, either by relaxing the app review process, or by allowing third-party marketplaces. They cannot have it both ways. Legally speaking, Apple may not need to change anything. However, I'm talking about how things SHOULD be, not how they ARE.

valuearb 6y ago
Opening up the platform ruins it. The walled garden is exactly why iPhones are so popular and iOS developers so successful.
- _qulr 6y ago
  iOS developers are not successful in general. The top 1% of App Store developers make the vast majority of the App Store revenue. Apple doesn't seem to care, because they get their 30% regardless of how the other 70% of the revenue is distributed.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    iOS App Developers make around $35B a year. I don’t directly get paid much by it anymore because I shut down my App company. But I have made a very good contracting rate and very high salaries for iOS development directly because of that $35B. Your own app company doesn’t have to be a winner, when the winners need a massive number of developers and have such a fountain of cash to pay them with.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > Your own app company doesn’t have to be a winner, when the winners need a massive number of developers and have such a fountain of cash to pay them with. I agree that the walled garden tends to create a few huge winners among App Store developers, and mostly losers among the other App Store developers. I don't think this situation is healthy, even if the few winners need a lot of engineers.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        If it is caused by the App Store, why do we see the same distribution in every single vertical where there is a platform?
        _qulr 6y ago
        We don't. For example, Mac software before the Mac app store had a much better distribution.
        scarface74 6y ago
        I’ve been around the Mac market off an on since the 90s. You had a few small software vendors that could make a living but not really. But you see the same distribution in music, books, podcasts, etc.
breakfastduck 6y ago
I disagree. The iPhone is a niche in terms of computing access. I wouldn’t want it to be first party apps only. The App Store being only open to apples approval is what makes the platform what it is. In an ideal world we’d be able to side load apps natively, but it’s not a dealbreaker for me - I can always jailbreak. App Stores on phones should be held to different standards to those on PCs, I feel.

gamblor956 6y ago

How on earth can it be a monopoly when it has the market share it does? It's not a monopoly, it's an abuse of market power, which does not require monopoly status but which is still forbidden by antitrust laws. It doesn't matter that they've always done it this way, because the antitrust laws have existed for longer than Apple has. And many of Apple's arbitrary decisions have no basis in security or ensuring family-friendly products. They exist simply to maintain or bolster Apple's market position.

breakfastduck 6y ago
See, this is where I disagree - but not entirely. Of course these decisions are made to bolster Apples market position - however, the important point here is that they do it through making great products. That’s always been the Apple priority. They’ve been making top of the line products consistently for two decades. These decisions bolster the products and ergo bolster market conditions. Making products the consumer is satisfied with is not anti consumer behaviour. What else can you ask for from a purchase?
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  If Apple wants to control its developers, it should hire them and pay them wages and benefits. The app store is just another version of the gig economy, and Apple is stomping around it like a typical tyrannical boss. Of course that is anti-consumer behaviour. It means Apple lacks a professional and credible relationship with its developers, and that clearly lowers the quality, the variety, and the accessibility of the apps for sale in the store.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Making products the consumer is satisfied with is not anti consumer behaviour. What else can you ask for from a purchase? ??? That's some powerful kool-aid. The issue is not that Apple makes shiny-looking products that many people like, and the quality of Apple's physical products is not a defense to their actions in other markets. The issue is that Apple is abusing it's market position derived from the sale of those shiny products to bolster its market position in other markets like mobile apps, SaaS (see, e.g., Spotify vs Apple Music). That is what is illegal.

newbie578 6y ago

A marketshare above >50% is a literal definition of monopoly... I wish people would stop trying to defend Apple without getting the facts right. If something "has always been this way" that doesn't make it right, especially if you are engaging in anti-competitive behaviour which the App Store is a perfect example (Apple is the Judge, Jury and Executioner). We are lucky Apple was near bankruptcy (although my personal belief is that we were not lucky enough since it still exists) when the Internet was growing, otherwise I have no doubt we would today have "select" websites which Apple approves and takes it's mafia tax. Want to show your blog over Safari to iOS users? Give us 30% or otherwise GTFO.