5 ms·

Are they going to make non-backward-compatible changes, or is this just a marketing move?

ilikepi 6y ago
It might be a little of both. I did come across this change to keyword arguments[1] recently, but I'm not sure how impactful it is since I don't personally leverage keyword arguments right now. [1]: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-positional-and-keyword-arguments-in-ruby-3-0/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-p...
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  It sure does blow up your logs if you're using rails with 2.7.1.
  - sosodev 6y ago
    Have you updated? Pretty sure all the warnings have been fixed now.
    - ljm 6y ago
      Problem is if you're stuck on gems that aren't maintained any more. Seen a few with PRs containing fixes going stale. Can still switch to a fork, at least.
    - jamie_ca 6y ago
      Yeah, core rails the only warning I've seen is a single one in sprockets-rails (brand new app from last week).
    - d3nj4l 6y ago
      Can't update at work, there's a few breaking changes :/
pmarreck 6y ago
looks like they're adding an optional type system, which means you get the worst of both worlds- no guarantees AND no compile-time type checking (think: what happens if type-checked code calls non-typed code?) so I have no idea how they're going to make that fast since all types will still have to be checked at runtime
- sosodev 6y ago
  Are you sure it’ll be awful? Sorbet (https://sorbet.org/ https://sorbet.org/) is pretty popular already. It can statically check your whole project and dynamically check it at runtime. It also doesn’t add that much overhead so I’m not sure what you’re on about...
  - pmarreck 6y ago
    What does it do with your library code that isn't type-specified? If it infers types, isn't there a limit as to how far that can go?
    - dbalatero 6y ago
      Not sure what Ruby core will do, but Sorbet will type everything as T.untyped in the absence of type hints. Libraries can progressively provide rbi files to add first class type support though.
  - oomkiller 6y ago
    Sorbet looks really cool, too bad they developed their own typing system that keeps types in a totally separate file instead of adopting it.
    - jamesgeck0 6y ago
      Sorbet was developed before the details of the new Ruby type system were locked in. They’re working on providing some convergence in upcoming releases.
    - 6y ago
anshul 6y ago
Ruby 3 is expected to introduce new concurrency primitives that evade the global interpreter lock (guilds / isolates) and type definitions for the stdlib for optional typing support. This should be a big release for ruby!
- aantix 6y ago
  The GVL? https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/c5eb24349a4535948514fe765c3ddb0628d81004/doc/ChangeLog-YARV#L4781 https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/c5eb24349a4535948514fe765c...
jrochkind1 6y ago
There are some non-backwards-compat changes regarding keyword arguments. They aren't that exciting, but they are necessary to eliminate some ambiguous and inconsistent cases, and will be a pain for some codebases. (2.7 already marks as deprecated behavior that will break in 3). https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-positional-and-keyword-arguments-in-ruby-3-0/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-p... I'm not sure if ruby actually commits to semver-style no-backwards-incompat-unless-major; they didn't used to. Either way though, recent ruby minor version releases have seen few if any (?) backwards incompat changes of any note -- nothing of note I can think of since 1.9 in 2007 (which did have major changes. Ironically 2.0 didn't have so much). The keyword arg changes will definitely effect more codebases more significantly than any we've seen in a while.

It might be a little of both. I did come across this change to keyword arguments[1] recently, but I'm not sure how impactful it is since I don't personally leverage keyword arguments right now. [1]: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-positional-and-keyword-arguments-in-ruby-3-0/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-p...

d3nj4l 6y ago
It sure does blow up your logs if you're using rails with 2.7.1.
- sosodev 6y ago
  Have you updated? Pretty sure all the warnings have been fixed now.
  - ljm 6y ago
    Problem is if you're stuck on gems that aren't maintained any more. Seen a few with PRs containing fixes going stale. Can still switch to a fork, at least.
  - jamie_ca 6y ago
    Yeah, core rails the only warning I've seen is a single one in sprockets-rails (brand new app from last week).
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    Can't update at work, there's a few breaking changes :/

pmarreck 6y ago

looks like they're adding an optional type system, which means you get the worst of both worlds- no guarantees AND no compile-time type checking (think: what happens if type-checked code calls non-typed code?) so I have no idea how they're going to make that fast since all types will still have to be checked at runtime

sosodev 6y ago
Are you sure it’ll be awful? Sorbet (https://sorbet.org/ https://sorbet.org/) is pretty popular already. It can statically check your whole project and dynamically check it at runtime. It also doesn’t add that much overhead so I’m not sure what you’re on about...
- pmarreck 6y ago
  What does it do with your library code that isn't type-specified? If it infers types, isn't there a limit as to how far that can go?
  - dbalatero 6y ago
    Not sure what Ruby core will do, but Sorbet will type everything as T.untyped in the absence of type hints. Libraries can progressively provide rbi files to add first class type support though.
- oomkiller 6y ago
  Sorbet looks really cool, too bad they developed their own typing system that keeps types in a totally separate file instead of adopting it.
  - jamesgeck0 6y ago
    Sorbet was developed before the details of the new Ruby type system were locked in. They’re working on providing some convergence in upcoming releases.
  - 6y ago

anshul 6y ago

Ruby 3 is expected to introduce new concurrency primitives that evade the global interpreter lock (guilds / isolates) and type definitions for the stdlib for optional typing support. This should be a big release for ruby!

aantix 6y ago
The GVL? https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/c5eb24349a4535948514fe765c3ddb0628d81004/doc/ChangeLog-YARV#L4781 https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/c5eb24349a4535948514fe765c...

jrochkind1 6y ago

There are some non-backwards-compat changes regarding keyword arguments. They aren't that exciting, but they are necessary to eliminate some ambiguous and inconsistent cases, and will be a pain for some codebases. (2.7 already marks as deprecated behavior that will break in 3). https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-positional-and-keyword-arguments-in-ruby-3-0/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2019/12/12/separation-of-p... I'm not sure if ruby actually commits to semver-style no-backwards-incompat-unless-major; they didn't used to. Either way though, recent ruby minor version releases have seen few if any (?) backwards incompat changes of any note -- nothing of note I can think of since 1.9 in 2007 (which did have major changes. Ironically 2.0 didn't have so much). The keyword arg changes will definitely effect more codebases more significantly than any we've seen in a while.