6 ms·

I disagree with the notion that space is better used if it exhibits greater density of population. I don't believe it is very easy to drive in Siena, Italy. I

I disagree with the notion that space is better used if it exhibits greater density of population. I don't believe it is very easy to drive in Siena, Italy. I also don't believe it is very easy to live under a highway interchange. To each space its own.

dia80 6y ago
In Siena, you walk.
- totalZero 6y ago
  In Houston, you drive. There is no reason to judge space in one place by the use patterns of a totally different place.
  - kaesar14 6y ago
    Walking sounds less dangerous, less polluting, and better for overall health
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      it is also slower and you cannot bring nearly as much with you. I love walking to restaurants, but I prefer to drive to the furniture store.
    - j8014 6y ago
      Do you shower at the place you are walking or riding your bike? Just sweat your ass off all day long and hope everyone around you doesn't mind? You have about 1-2 minutes before your sweating through your clothing in Houston. It's 95F and ONLY 60% humidity right now.
      - kaesar14 6y ago
        Sounds like the kind of place humanity shouldn't be living
  - crmrc114 6y ago
    I have lived in walking cities, I prefer to have a car. I can enjoy my own music or podcast- my own schedule in the case of mass transit. I can also enjoy my own aircon and heat settings. I know lots of people want to bike/walk everywhere- that is just not for me. I think this comes up everytime someone talks about urban planning here. Some people just have no interest in living within high density areas- I am one of them. I like being able to use a telescope and not hear cars.
    - oblio 6y ago
      Tragedy of the commons, though. Your immediate best interest might be bad for the community.
      - johnisgood 6y ago
        Well, in all fairness, s/he did say: > I prefer to have a car. > I like being able to use a telescope and not hear cars. So I am not sure s/he cares much about the commons. :D
        crmrc114 6y ago
        I mean, like I also have bees and livestock. Not sure why my parent comment here is getting downvoted like crazy. But yeah some people just don't like the cosmopolitanism. Then again I enjoy Walden and nature. This is getting a bit meta and off topic. It does seem like any mention of cars on HN will get a slew of automobile haters and lovers in a flamewar. Not my goal here. Just saying different strokes, the common good depends on your optics.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ChickeNES 6y ago
      > I can enjoy my own music or podcast- my own schedule in the case of mass transit. I can also enjoy my own aircon and heat settings. I'm honestly confused, how are these things not possible in the city? My earbuds worked perfectly fine on the bus and train pre-covid, and my apartment has its own thermostat (and indeed its own HVAC system)
  - kfarr 6y ago
    One causes destruction of our shared planet and personal debt
naringas 6y ago
I bet it's also not necessary to drive in Siena, Italy
- totalZero 6y ago
  And yet it's necessary to drive in Houston. Imagine judging Siena based on the ease of driving. That would be equally as arbitrary as judging Houston by its space allocation to roadway interchanges.
nend 6y ago
I think the argument is that space is better used by designing for people, not for cars. Sometimes that means population density, but sometimes it means open plazas, pedestrian only streets, parks, etc.
- totalZero 6y ago
  This is the part that got a few nanometers underneath my skin: Hendrix pulled this eye-opening comparison from a report compiled by the U.K.’s Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission, which sternly suggests that housing 30,000 Italians is less wasteful and more sustainable than using the same amount of acreage to simply move cars around. There’s truth to that, of course [...] There's no truth to that, of course. Houston is a gigantic port city and population center, in a region of the USA where automobiles are almost essential to life because everything is spread out and public transportation is sparse. Even if you only focus on designing for people, there are people commuting in those automobiles and their quality of life goes up when their daily commute doesn't include a series of congested off-ramps and on-ramps in bumper-to-bumper traffic. In Houston, the user drives. Just because Tuscany is nice doesn't mean there is any reason why space in places where the use case is different should be judged with Tuscany in mind as an ideal. To take it to the extreme, this article is akin to a comparison between the ISS and a soccer field. The author decided that the soccer field is a better use of space because it accommodates multiple times as many participants as the ISS.
tssva 6y ago
I also disagree but let's assume it is true. Houston would overall be a better user of space than Siena. The population density of the entire city of Siena is around 1200 per square mile. For Houston it is over 3600 per square mile.
register 6y ago
In Siena it's just a pleasure to walk. And if you have the luck to live in the city center you just walk to the main square and spend your time there sipping a glass of Montepulciano at a local bar.

dia80 6y ago

In Siena, you walk.

totalZero 6y ago
In Houston, you drive. There is no reason to judge space in one place by the use patterns of a totally different place.
- kaesar14 6y ago
  Walking sounds less dangerous, less polluting, and better for overall health
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    it is also slower and you cannot bring nearly as much with you. I love walking to restaurants, but I prefer to drive to the furniture store.
  - j8014 6y ago
    Do you shower at the place you are walking or riding your bike? Just sweat your ass off all day long and hope everyone around you doesn't mind? You have about 1-2 minutes before your sweating through your clothing in Houston. It's 95F and ONLY 60% humidity right now.
    - kaesar14 6y ago
      Sounds like the kind of place humanity shouldn't be living
- crmrc114 6y ago
  I have lived in walking cities, I prefer to have a car. I can enjoy my own music or podcast- my own schedule in the case of mass transit. I can also enjoy my own aircon and heat settings. I know lots of people want to bike/walk everywhere- that is just not for me. I think this comes up everytime someone talks about urban planning here. Some people just have no interest in living within high density areas- I am one of them. I like being able to use a telescope and not hear cars.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Tragedy of the commons, though. Your immediate best interest might be bad for the community.
    - johnisgood 6y ago
      Well, in all fairness, s/he did say: > I prefer to have a car. > I like being able to use a telescope and not hear cars. So I am not sure s/he cares much about the commons. :D
      - crmrc114 6y ago
        I mean, like I also have bees and livestock. Not sure why my parent comment here is getting downvoted like crazy. But yeah some people just don't like the cosmopolitanism. Then again I enjoy Walden and nature. This is getting a bit meta and off topic. It does seem like any mention of cars on HN will get a slew of automobile haters and lovers in a flamewar. Not my goal here. Just saying different strokes, the common good depends on your optics.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChickeNES 6y ago
    > I can enjoy my own music or podcast- my own schedule in the case of mass transit. I can also enjoy my own aircon and heat settings. I'm honestly confused, how are these things not possible in the city? My earbuds worked perfectly fine on the bus and train pre-covid, and my apartment has its own thermostat (and indeed its own HVAC system)
- kfarr 6y ago
  One causes destruction of our shared planet and personal debt

naringas 6y ago

I bet it's also not necessary to drive in Siena, Italy

totalZero 6y ago
And yet it's necessary to drive in Houston. Imagine judging Siena based on the ease of driving. That would be equally as arbitrary as judging Houston by its space allocation to roadway interchanges.

nend 6y ago

I think the argument is that space is better used by designing for people, not for cars. Sometimes that means population density, but sometimes it means open plazas, pedestrian only streets, parks, etc.

totalZero 6y ago
This is the part that got a few nanometers underneath my skin: Hendrix pulled this eye-opening comparison from a report compiled by the U.K.’s Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission, which sternly suggests that housing 30,000 Italians is less wasteful and more sustainable than using the same amount of acreage to simply move cars around. There’s truth to that, of course [...] There's no truth to that, of course. Houston is a gigantic port city and population center, in a region of the USA where automobiles are almost essential to life because everything is spread out and public transportation is sparse. Even if you only focus on designing for people, there are people commuting in those automobiles and their quality of life goes up when their daily commute doesn't include a series of congested off-ramps and on-ramps in bumper-to-bumper traffic. In Houston, the user drives. Just because Tuscany is nice doesn't mean there is any reason why space in places where the use case is different should be judged with Tuscany in mind as an ideal. To take it to the extreme, this article is akin to a comparison between the ISS and a soccer field. The author decided that the soccer field is a better use of space because it accommodates multiple times as many participants as the ISS.

tssva 6y ago

I also disagree but let's assume it is true. Houston would overall be a better user of space than Siena. The population density of the entire city of Siena is around 1200 per square mile. For Houston it is over 3600 per square mile.

In Siena it's just a pleasure to walk. And if you have the luck to live in the city center you just walk to the main square and spend your time there sipping a glass of Montepulciano at a local bar.