6 ms·

You're missing the forest for the trees. What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, as it is written i

by jart 6y ago

You're missing the forest for the trees. What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, as it is written in his original paper. Now that's something I'd love to see. What he accomplished there is so profound and has served as the center of gravity that's attracted folks to LISP ever since. Also if you build it with APE your distributables will run on all platforms https://justine.storage.googleapis.com/ape.html https://justine.storage.googleapis.com/ape.html

acqq 6y ago
> Also if you build it with APE your distributables will run on all platforms Did anybody show that that format is actually usable for distribution of something that's not expected to be very, very small? I've got an impression it's more a hacking achievement than a really practical solution.
- jart 6y ago
  UNIX philosophy is to have lots of small executables. This is a brand new scrappy project that offers a lot of value in terms of better enabling that vision. It uses normal GNU C / C++ / FORTRAN (which are all fantastic toys) combined with a linker script that emits a new executable format.
lioeters 6y ago
Thank you for that article, it was a joy to read. The lively discussion last week about APE: αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256883
nils-m-holm 6y ago
> What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, as it is written in his original paper. Now that's something I'd love to see. If a C code generator will do, this will be the topic of my upcoming book.
- ptrott2017 6y ago
  @nils-m-holm - Having thoroughly enjoyed mLight's codebase and playing with mLight in general and worked through your SubC compiler - very much looking forward to the upcoming book.
  - nils-m-holm 6y ago
    Thanks! Oh, mLite! That was a while ago! Fun times! :)
- tekknolagi 6y ago
  It's great to see you in the thread! I very much enjoyed Lisp from outer space. Your work has been helpful in teaching me programming languages stuff.
  - nils-m-holm 6y ago
    Good to hear, thank you!
- jart 6y ago
  Wow I'm not sure if I've ever influenced someone to write a book before. That's certainly something I'd pay to read. Can we call it "The LISP Challenge"? https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/971235177002225665/photo/1 https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/971235177002225665/... I think C code generation is great. The problem generalizes well across languages, which is why I love suggesting it to my friends who are getting into the latest one: take The LISP Challenge!
  - nils-m-holm 6y ago
    > Wow I'm not sure if I've ever influenced someone to write a book before. I hope I am not disappointing you too much, but the book was already in progress when you posted your message! Coincidence! :) And the title is pretty much set at this point, I'm afraid...
tekknolagi 6y ago
> You're missing the forest for the trees. What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, I don't think I am, and that's explicitly not the focus of the series. The goal is to learn about writing a Lisp compiler and to learn about x86-64. I don't care if I compile more in C than I need to.

by jart 6y ago

acqq 6y ago

> Also if you build it with APE your distributables will run on all platforms Did anybody show that that format is actually usable for distribution of something that's not expected to be very, very small? I've got an impression it's more a hacking achievement than a really practical solution.

jart 6y ago
UNIX philosophy is to have lots of small executables. This is a brand new scrappy project that offers a lot of value in terms of better enabling that vision. It uses normal GNU C / C++ / FORTRAN (which are all fantastic toys) combined with a linker script that emits a new executable format.

lioeters 6y ago

Thank you for that article, it was a joy to read. The lively discussion last week about APE: αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256883

nils-m-holm 6y ago

> What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, as it is written in his original paper. Now that's something I'd love to see. If a C code generator will do, this will be the topic of my upcoming book.

ptrott2017 6y ago
@nils-m-holm - Having thoroughly enjoyed mLight's codebase and playing with mLight in general and worked through your SubC compiler - very much looking forward to the upcoming book.
- nils-m-holm 6y ago
  Thanks! Oh, mLite! That was a while ago! Fun times! :)
tekknolagi 6y ago
It's great to see you in the thread! I very much enjoyed Lisp from outer space. Your work has been helpful in teaching me programming languages stuff.
- nils-m-holm 6y ago
  Good to hear, thank you!
jart 6y ago
Wow I'm not sure if I've ever influenced someone to write a book before. That's certainly something I'd pay to read. Can we call it "The LISP Challenge"? https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/971235177002225665/photo/1 https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/971235177002225665/... I think C code generation is great. The problem generalizes well across languages, which is why I love suggesting it to my friends who are getting into the latest one: take The LISP Challenge!
- nils-m-holm 6y ago
  > Wow I'm not sure if I've ever influenced someone to write a book before. I hope I am not disappointing you too much, but the book was already in progress when you posted your message! Coincidence! :) And the title is pretty much set at this point, I'm afraid...

tekknolagi 6y ago

> You're missing the forest for the trees. What's the tiniest x86-64 code generator that can bootstrap John McCarthy's meta-circular evaluator, I don't think I am, and that's explicitly not the focus of the series. The goal is to learn about writing a Lisp compiler and to learn about x86-64. I don't care if I compile more in C than I need to.