4 ms·

> I remember looking up the Dalai Lama and seeing at the bottom: "Nationality: Chinese" which made me laugh, but on the other hand things like these make many p

by em500 6y ago

> I remember looking up the Dalai Lama and seeing at the bottom: "Nationality: Chinese" which made me laugh, but on the other hand things like these make many people upset. Out of curiosity, what do you believe to be the correct nationality?

tialaramex 6y ago
I presume the Dalai Lama considers himself to be Tibetan. Now, perhaps you would consider that we ought to demand people's "nationality" be an actual UN member state which counts them as a citizen and since Tibet isn't a member... That's a bit awkward though because the "One China" policy ensures neither the Republic (in Taiwan) nor the PRC will allow the other to be a UN member at the same time as them. Also I find that I doubt we demand most people have documentary proof. Not taking their word for it is already a bit weird unless you're a border official. Is Samantha Bee really Canadian? I mean, she says she is so I just assumed...
- brazzy 6y ago
  > the "One China" policy ensures neither the Republic (in Taiwan) nor the PRC will allow the other to be a UN member at the same time as them. Actually, 90+% of the population of the ROC, including their leaders, would be ecstatically happy to be an UN member separately from the PRC. The only reason they officially have a "One China policy" is that the PRC has made it clear that while they can tolerate the status quo of a rival government with zero prospects of actually challenging them controlling a small piece of their territory, they will very much not tolerate that piece of territory to become officially independant and provide an example for at least half a dozen others.
- mc32 6y ago
  It could also be like asking what was Mozart’s nationality? Austrian or Holy Roman?
  - ginko 6y ago
    He was a Salzburger, which was an independent princedom back then.
    - mc32 6y ago
      Is that what he is celebrated as these days? Which country takes pride in this composer these days?
      - ginko 6y ago
        Salzburg is now part of Austria, so..
        mc32 6y ago
        I agree. Same for the Dalai Lama. He was once Tibetan but today he is Chinese. That’s just how it has worked and does work, like it or not. Obviously being in exile I have no idea what passport he carries of if he gets to issue his own given he contends the current government, etc.
        ginko 6y ago
        The difference is that the Dalai Lama is alive and presumably has an opinion on this.
        puszczyk 6y ago
        It think Austria is proud of their Salzburg heritage and China (CCP) works really hard to tear down the Tibetan culture.
        berdario 6y ago
        Han Chinese children have to learn Tibetan in school: https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/1299258272327688192 https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/12992582723... I think that rumors of cultural oppression in Tibet have been vastly exaggerated
atoav 6y ago
Nationality: Chinese* * verbose explanation why this might be disputed
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
Tibetan, because before the so-called "Annexation" of Tibet (the word "occupation" is carefully avoided, even on WP), Tibet was an independent country (at least for a few decades). It's not like Manchuria or a few other geographic regions inhabited by ethnicities different from Chinese. So people born during that period in Tibet were Tibetans. With the Dalai Lama this point is particularly interesting, because his life is an ongoing conversation with the Chinese (although at times they seem like two monologues).
- yks 6y ago
  There are millions of people currently living who were born in the Soviet Union and about 0% of them identifies or is identified as “Nationality: USSR”. I think what matters is whether the existence of an independent country is contested. No one contests non-existence of USSR but Tibetan case is not closed.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    Maybe because the USSR was an artificial construct very few people identified with? Even when it existed, people were calling themselves Russians, Latvian and so on, not really "Soviet."

by em500 6y ago

tialaramex 6y ago

I presume the Dalai Lama considers himself to be Tibetan. Now, perhaps you would consider that we ought to demand people's "nationality" be an actual UN member state which counts them as a citizen and since Tibet isn't a member... That's a bit awkward though because the "One China" policy ensures neither the Republic (in Taiwan) nor the PRC will allow the other to be a UN member at the same time as them. Also I find that I doubt we demand most people have documentary proof. Not taking their word for it is already a bit weird unless you're a border official. Is Samantha Bee really Canadian? I mean, she says she is so I just assumed...

brazzy 6y ago
> the "One China" policy ensures neither the Republic (in Taiwan) nor the PRC will allow the other to be a UN member at the same time as them. Actually, 90+% of the population of the ROC, including their leaders, would be ecstatically happy to be an UN member separately from the PRC. The only reason they officially have a "One China policy" is that the PRC has made it clear that while they can tolerate the status quo of a rival government with zero prospects of actually challenging them controlling a small piece of their territory, they will very much not tolerate that piece of territory to become officially independant and provide an example for at least half a dozen others.
mc32 6y ago
It could also be like asking what was Mozart’s nationality? Austrian or Holy Roman?
- ginko 6y ago
  He was a Salzburger, which was an independent princedom back then.
  - mc32 6y ago
    Is that what he is celebrated as these days? Which country takes pride in this composer these days?
    - ginko 6y ago
      Salzburg is now part of Austria, so..
      - mc32 6y ago
        I agree. Same for the Dalai Lama. He was once Tibetan but today he is Chinese. That’s just how it has worked and does work, like it or not. Obviously being in exile I have no idea what passport he carries of if he gets to issue his own given he contends the current government, etc.
        ginko 6y ago
        The difference is that the Dalai Lama is alive and presumably has an opinion on this.
        puszczyk 6y ago
        It think Austria is proud of their Salzburg heritage and China (CCP) works really hard to tear down the Tibetan culture.
        berdario 6y ago
        Han Chinese children have to learn Tibetan in school: https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/1299258272327688192 https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/12992582723... I think that rumors of cultural oppression in Tibet have been vastly exaggerated

atoav 6y ago

Nationality: Chinese* * verbose explanation why this might be disputed

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

Tibetan, because before the so-called "Annexation" of Tibet (the word "occupation" is carefully avoided, even on WP), Tibet was an independent country (at least for a few decades). It's not like Manchuria or a few other geographic regions inhabited by ethnicities different from Chinese. So people born during that period in Tibet were Tibetans. With the Dalai Lama this point is particularly interesting, because his life is an ongoing conversation with the Chinese (although at times they seem like two monologues).

yks 6y ago
There are millions of people currently living who were born in the Soviet Union and about 0% of them identifies or is identified as “Nationality: USSR”. I think what matters is whether the existence of an independent country is contested. No one contests non-existence of USSR but Tibetan case is not closed.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Maybe because the USSR was an artificial construct very few people identified with? Even when it existed, people were calling themselves Russians, Latvian and so on, not really "Soviet."