4 ms·

High value targets will justify expenditure of more resources. For most targets a few men with AK-47s might do the trick, but for the well protected target this

High value targets will justify expenditure of more resources. For most targets a few men with AK-47s might do the trick, but for the well protected target this would be a pretty decent strategy. It certainly would strike fear into the hearts of men otherwise protected against more pedestrian threats, which is probably part of the point.

clarus 6y ago
This is exactly how drones were used in Syria as I understood. To attack otherwise protected targets or strike fear. To attack Russian bases they even use swarms of suicide planes: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/01/12/the_poor_mans_airforce/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/01/12/the_poor_man...
peteretep 6y ago
Seems like more hassle than a mortar for about the same effect?
- dogma1138 6y ago
  You can’t order a mortar on alibaba, and it requires much more training to use it effectively than flying a drone. Mortars are also large and heavy and require a crew to serve as well as spotters to direct fire which means you need to have people closer to your target and working communications. All of this complicates the logistics considerably which makes them less effective and more dangerous to their operators. Effective mortar attacks can be fairly easily countered in the long term by jamming radios, cutting brush and removing other natural hiding spots and by killing experienced mortar crews. Drones can be piloted by nearly anyone and with basic consumer grade equipment they can also be piloted from anywhere in the world as long as you have an internet connection.
  - JackFr 6y ago
    > You can’t order a mortar on alibaba Well you can’t order C4 on Alibaba either. But if you can get C4 you can likely get a mortar.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      A mortar tube without training is nothing more than an exciting way to get yourself and your mates killed.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      You can get C4 much more easily than you think plastic explosive has a ton of civilian uses from demolition to mining and oil and gas. Mortars and mortar rounds on the other hand aren’t as easy to get and require trained crews to employ.
  - peteretep 6y ago
    I’m not sure cartels have much trouble finding military hardware or people trained to use it
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      Believe it or not they do, small arms are much easier to get than heavy weapons they also are much easier to use. The cartels ironically rely on a lot of weapons coming in from the US especially as the remnants of Cold War era proxy wars in central and South America die out and they can no longer benefit from both the US and the former USSR dumping enough weaponry to invade Europe into the jungles. Weapons don’t grow on trees, they are easy to get as long as there are conflicts in the region which are sponsored by superpowers or other patrons with sufficient resources that facilitate those shipments once those end they become rarer and rare.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Mortars also have the nasty habit of drawing counter-battery fire, which occasionally leaves you short of a mortar and mortar crew. Drones are much lower risk to the operator, which is exactly why the US uses them too.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  Smack the back of a mortar round of pavement, and you now have an impact grenade. Hang that under a drone, and you have a way to drop impact grenades on unsuspecting targets from an altitude high enough that the drone can’t be detected visually. ISIS was doing just that a few years ago. There were/are plans floating around on the Internet for stabilizing fins for common mortar rounds - 3D print those, and you’re 90% of the way there.
JackFr 6y ago
So how will a drone attack me in my house? Mind you my house is not a hard target but is air conditioned, so I keep the doors and windows shut. How will a drone attack me in my car? I don’t have a great car, but I’m pretty sure it can outrun an off the shelf quadcopter. So assuming I’m safe in my home and in my car, I guess other opportunities exist to kill me, but you need to have an operator ready with a drone in proximity. It just doesn’t make sense. Admittedly, drones with IEDs can be used as a terror device, to kill someone in a group of people, but as a targeted means of killing I can’t imagine it being better than a mortar or RPG.
- golergka 6y ago
  > I’m pretty sure it can outrun an off the shelf quadcopter. You need to know you're running from something to run from it. Do you have set of mirrors or cameras to conveniently monitor what's happening above your car?
- ISL 6y ago
  A drone need not enter a home to cause havoc within. I do not believe the assumption that one is safe within a home/car is a viable one. To discuss specific implementations of an attack would seem to violate both a personal code and what I imagine to be the spirit of HN.
  - gleapsite 6y ago
    > violate both a personal code and what I imagine to be the spirit of HN. Thanks for throwing up the Ethics flag. Discussing/brainstorming this in a public forum is volunteering your brainpower in support of murderers.
    - Pet_Ant 6y ago
      > Discussing/brainstorming this in a public forum is volunteering your brainpower in support of murderers. If you think that you in a few moments on the back of a napkin will come up with something that someone funded and fuelled by an ideology that they are willing to die for can't with months of planning, then that's arrogance of an epic scale. This is as ridiculous as don't talk about hacking/spoofing/phishing because otherwise the bad guys won't figure it out.

clarus 6y ago

This is exactly how drones were used in Syria as I understood. To attack otherwise protected targets or strike fear. To attack Russian bases they even use swarms of suicide planes: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/01/12/the_poor_mans_airforce/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/01/12/the_poor_man...

peteretep 6y ago

Seems like more hassle than a mortar for about the same effect?

dogma1138 6y ago
You can’t order a mortar on alibaba, and it requires much more training to use it effectively than flying a drone. Mortars are also large and heavy and require a crew to serve as well as spotters to direct fire which means you need to have people closer to your target and working communications. All of this complicates the logistics considerably which makes them less effective and more dangerous to their operators. Effective mortar attacks can be fairly easily countered in the long term by jamming radios, cutting brush and removing other natural hiding spots and by killing experienced mortar crews. Drones can be piloted by nearly anyone and with basic consumer grade equipment they can also be piloted from anywhere in the world as long as you have an internet connection.
- JackFr 6y ago
  > You can’t order a mortar on alibaba Well you can’t order C4 on Alibaba either. But if you can get C4 you can likely get a mortar.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    A mortar tube without training is nothing more than an exciting way to get yourself and your mates killed.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    You can get C4 much more easily than you think plastic explosive has a ton of civilian uses from demolition to mining and oil and gas. Mortars and mortar rounds on the other hand aren’t as easy to get and require trained crews to employ.
- peteretep 6y ago
  I’m not sure cartels have much trouble finding military hardware or people trained to use it
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    Believe it or not they do, small arms are much easier to get than heavy weapons they also are much easier to use. The cartels ironically rely on a lot of weapons coming in from the US especially as the remnants of Cold War era proxy wars in central and South America die out and they can no longer benefit from both the US and the former USSR dumping enough weaponry to invade Europe into the jungles. Weapons don’t grow on trees, they are easy to get as long as there are conflicts in the region which are sponsored by superpowers or other patrons with sufficient resources that facilitate those shipments once those end they become rarer and rare.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Mortars also have the nasty habit of drawing counter-battery fire, which occasionally leaves you short of a mortar and mortar crew. Drones are much lower risk to the operator, which is exactly why the US uses them too.
Ancapistani 6y ago
Smack the back of a mortar round of pavement, and you now have an impact grenade. Hang that under a drone, and you have a way to drop impact grenades on unsuspecting targets from an altitude high enough that the drone can’t be detected visually. ISIS was doing just that a few years ago. There were/are plans floating around on the Internet for stabilizing fins for common mortar rounds - 3D print those, and you’re 90% of the way there.

JackFr 6y ago

So how will a drone attack me in my house? Mind you my house is not a hard target but is air conditioned, so I keep the doors and windows shut. How will a drone attack me in my car? I don’t have a great car, but I’m pretty sure it can outrun an off the shelf quadcopter. So assuming I’m safe in my home and in my car, I guess other opportunities exist to kill me, but you need to have an operator ready with a drone in proximity. It just doesn’t make sense. Admittedly, drones with IEDs can be used as a terror device, to kill someone in a group of people, but as a targeted means of killing I can’t imagine it being better than a mortar or RPG.

golergka 6y ago
> I’m pretty sure it can outrun an off the shelf quadcopter. You need to know you're running from something to run from it. Do you have set of mirrors or cameras to conveniently monitor what's happening above your car?
ISL 6y ago
A drone need not enter a home to cause havoc within. I do not believe the assumption that one is safe within a home/car is a viable one. To discuss specific implementations of an attack would seem to violate both a personal code and what I imagine to be the spirit of HN.
- gleapsite 6y ago
  > violate both a personal code and what I imagine to be the spirit of HN. Thanks for throwing up the Ethics flag. Discussing/brainstorming this in a public forum is volunteering your brainpower in support of murderers.
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    > Discussing/brainstorming this in a public forum is volunteering your brainpower in support of murderers. If you think that you in a few moments on the back of a napkin will come up with something that someone funded and fuelled by an ideology that they are willing to die for can't with months of planning, then that's arrogance of an epic scale. This is as ridiculous as don't talk about hacking/spoofing/phishing because otherwise the bad guys won't figure it out.