5 ms·

Humans are held responsible for what they do. But who is gonna go to jail if Tesla kills someone? Owner? Enginneers? Maybe car itself?

kerng 6y ago
If breakes dont work, who is held accountable? These things have pretty pragmatic solutions and arent really much different to other areas. Elon Musk said in the past if it's a AP failure, then Tesla is accountable.
- adrianN 6y ago
  Except in the fine print there is a clause that says the driver has to always be able to take control in time to avoid crashes and hence Tesla is not at fault unless AP somehow actively prevents the driver from taking control.
ximeng 6y ago
You sue whoever looks to be to blame. So perhaps the victim’s family sues the car owner. The car owner then sues the car manufacturer if they feel it was to blame. If the company feels an individual engineer was to blame they might sue the engineer. Basically just let the courts figure out the balance between societal harm and responsibility.
dheera 6y ago
The idea that we need to find a single escape-goat to blame and throw in jail for every accident is a very antiquated way to think about justice. There are many cases where nobody is at fault, or multiple people are collectively at fault. I would much prefer we think in terms of overall safety. If human drivers have 30000 deaths a year, and switching to autonomous driving results in 1000 deaths per year, we've made progress as a society. We don't need to hunt down and throw people (or cars) in jail for those 1000 deaths. We should instead demand that engineers investigate those 1000 deaths and try to find ways to get them as close to 0 as possible. Throwing people in jail is a waste of resources that could be diverted towards achieving better safety. The engineers should be investigating and making improvements, not sitting in a jail cell. (Of course, if there is intentional negligence that resulted in 1000 deaths when there would normally be 500, that's another story.)
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  Fair comment but what about when there are monetary damages that need to be paid. Someone is going to have to pay for the cars and what they crash in to to be repaired. If tesla pushes out an update that causes your car to automatically steer in to another one, are you the owner responsible for paying for both cars to be fixed?
  - dheera 6y ago
    Insurance pays. If it's two autonomous cars, split the bill. The insurance companies should be happy that accidents happen at 1/30 the rate they used to (if we take my numbers above as an example). They can give you an 80% discount on your insurance premium for having an autonomous car, and still net a massive profit when averaged over all their customers over time.
    - cgriswald 6y ago
      You haven’t answered the question. Who pays for the insurance?
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        What happens now, when your car breaks in a way that causes an accident? Obviously this is a thing that happens and it is dealt with somehow. It hasn't happened to me, and I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say for sure offhand. At least in my state, there is no fault coverage everyone has to buy, that covers medical bills up to a certain amount. It does not cover fixing your car. If there is nobody responsible for a collision, maybe the repairs would fall under comprehensive coverage. From what I read, if you hit a deer, it's covered under comprehensive. But if you try to avoid hitting a deer and run into a tree, it's covered under collision. So it seems somewhat arbitrary.
        cgriswald 6y ago
        There's at least a magnitude of difference between a driver, who is always in control of the vehicle, suddenly finding that his brakes have failed, and then doing what he can to reduce or minimize the impact of the accident; and a driver who is basically a passenger having to make what is likely to be a last-minute decision to wrench control from an anonymous vehicle. A decision that will be heavily question by the manufacturers' lawyers or insurance companies. If it's not possible to take control, would he have any liability at all?

kerng 6y ago

If breakes dont work, who is held accountable? These things have pretty pragmatic solutions and arent really much different to other areas. Elon Musk said in the past if it's a AP failure, then Tesla is accountable.

adrianN 6y ago
Except in the fine print there is a clause that says the driver has to always be able to take control in time to avoid crashes and hence Tesla is not at fault unless AP somehow actively prevents the driver from taking control.

ximeng 6y ago

You sue whoever looks to be to blame. So perhaps the victim’s family sues the car owner. The car owner then sues the car manufacturer if they feel it was to blame. If the company feels an individual engineer was to blame they might sue the engineer. Basically just let the courts figure out the balance between societal harm and responsibility.

dheera 6y ago

The idea that we need to find a single escape-goat to blame and throw in jail for every accident is a very antiquated way to think about justice. There are many cases where nobody is at fault, or multiple people are collectively at fault. I would much prefer we think in terms of overall safety. If human drivers have 30000 deaths a year, and switching to autonomous driving results in 1000 deaths per year, we've made progress as a society. We don't need to hunt down and throw people (or cars) in jail for those 1000 deaths. We should instead demand that engineers investigate those 1000 deaths and try to find ways to get them as close to 0 as possible. Throwing people in jail is a waste of resources that could be diverted towards achieving better safety. The engineers should be investigating and making improvements, not sitting in a jail cell. (Of course, if there is intentional negligence that resulted in 1000 deaths when there would normally be 500, that's another story.)

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
Fair comment but what about when there are monetary damages that need to be paid. Someone is going to have to pay for the cars and what they crash in to to be repaired. If tesla pushes out an update that causes your car to automatically steer in to another one, are you the owner responsible for paying for both cars to be fixed?
- dheera 6y ago
  Insurance pays. If it's two autonomous cars, split the bill. The insurance companies should be happy that accidents happen at 1/30 the rate they used to (if we take my numbers above as an example). They can give you an 80% discount on your insurance premium for having an autonomous car, and still net a massive profit when averaged over all their customers over time.
  - cgriswald 6y ago
    You haven’t answered the question. Who pays for the insurance?
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      What happens now, when your car breaks in a way that causes an accident? Obviously this is a thing that happens and it is dealt with somehow. It hasn't happened to me, and I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say for sure offhand. At least in my state, there is no fault coverage everyone has to buy, that covers medical bills up to a certain amount. It does not cover fixing your car. If there is nobody responsible for a collision, maybe the repairs would fall under comprehensive coverage. From what I read, if you hit a deer, it's covered under comprehensive. But if you try to avoid hitting a deer and run into a tree, it's covered under collision. So it seems somewhat arbitrary.
      - cgriswald 6y ago
        There's at least a magnitude of difference between a driver, who is always in control of the vehicle, suddenly finding that his brakes have failed, and then doing what he can to reduce or minimize the impact of the accident; and a driver who is basically a passenger having to make what is likely to be a last-minute decision to wrench control from an anonymous vehicle. A decision that will be heavily question by the manufacturers' lawyers or insurance companies. If it's not possible to take control, would he have any liability at all?