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I was talking about the content of the actual article linked, though. It bugs me when the highest rated comment in a discussion is a copy-and-pasted blurb from
by silentbicycle 16y ago
I was talking about the content of the actual article linked, though. It bugs me when the highest rated comment in a discussion is a copy-and-pasted blurb from something that is only tangentially relevant.
As long as we're veering off topic, I think it's interesting to consider Erlang in light of Alan Kay's ideas about OOP: While people coming from a C++/Java-ish background likely wouldn't recognize it as any kind of OOP, it's arguably MORE so than those: It's more directly based on encapsulation (via processes) and message-passing, without all of the "x IS-A y" conceptual baggage that comes from their mix of static types and OOP. It also has pervasive immutability.
- blub 16y agoWhy do you think that Smalltalk-style OOP is better than other styles?
- seabee 16y agoThe pros and cons of different styles is another discussion entirely. This is about judging how 'OOP' something is, so it's probably most fruitful to compare it to its original definition rather than to the derivatives it inspired. Hence Alan Kay.
- blub 16y agoAlan Kay didn't invent oop in Smalltalk, hence my question: why is Smalltalk the style better than Simula style.
- kragen 16y agoAlan Kay invented the term "object-oriented programming" to describe what they were trying to do in Smalltalk. It's irrelevant whether Simula-style programming is better or worse than OOP; we're just discussing whether it's equally OO, which is a question about what definition we are choosing to accept — a semantic question, not a normative or factual one.
- gnaritas 16y ago> Alan Kay didn't invent oop in Smalltalk Yes, he most certainly did. Simula had objects, but it was not object oriented, objects were not the core abstraction everything was built upon. That didn't come until Smalltalk which is why Smalltalk is the defining language for the term object oriented.
- silentbicycle 16y ago"OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things." -Alan Kay Personal taste has nothing to do with it, I'm just pointing out that it's a closer fit.
- blub 16y agoActually, your personal staste has a lot to do with it, since you've picked Alan Kay's/Smalltalk as the de facto definition of oop. While you may prefer Alan Kay's definition, it is only a subjective one. It was not the first one and it is not the only one, so dismissin Java as less oop than Erlang is premature.
- silentbicycle 16y agoThe article is specifically about Alan Kay's definition, that is why we are discussing it.
- Zak 16y agoIt was not the first one I'm pretty sure Alan Kay invented the term "object-oriented programming", which gives his definition some precedence over any other.