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I think a big part of the problem is the concept of sacrifice is falling by the wayside. I feel my grandparents had a much more realistic understanding of the

I think a big part of the problem is the concept of sacrifice is falling by the wayside. I feel my grandparents had a much more realistic understanding of the world and it's trade offs. I get it, yes, it sucks to have controlled burns. No, it doesn't suck as bad as out of control wildfires. But people want to have their cake and eat it at the same time. It's always been that way, but I feel there are less forces constricting such unrealistic, out of touch perspectives with reality. I feel such a perspective comes with wealth and living outside of nature. Anyone who's hiked enough, or gone camping understands the trade off between the convenience of what you carry and the weight it creates. I've heard highly intelligent people argue that we should 'increase X in the production of Y', where X is some point that pretty much everyone agrees is good. But when I mention, well that will necessitate an increase in the cost of production of Y, since you are adding extra processes, the concept is rejected. It's really quite fascinating to me to see this manifest in so many aspects.

zdragnar 6y ago
I think there has been a general decrease in the value placed on self discipline. Part of it is the abundance of pretty much everything, and an overall rise in the basic standard of living for the average American. Part of it is the coincidental rise in the exaltation of self- social media reputation, self promotion, self fulfillment. This change, I think, is especially evident in the change over the past decades in the American Christian communities. Churches with laws and discipline have been on a steep decline, and churches that focus on feel-good messages that basically amount to "try to be nice, it is wonderful!" seem to be becoming the norm. It isn't even just the megachurches, even Catholic traditions have largely abandoned any sense of enforcing the practice of discipline- observing dietary restrictions on Lent is more a holiday and an excuse to eat fish rather than an observation. Obviously, there are no shortage of examples of strict laws going wrong, but I do think that society as a whole could do better by practicing forms of discipline- whether religious observances, meditation, or entirely secular things like community organized walks or workout routines. The power of sacrifice, as you put it, is a strength to overcome adversity, and is a state of mind and habit that requires practice.
- bamboozled 6y ago
  This is called “anecdata”
  - akiselev 6y ago
    Discussions are full of anecdata. That's what makes them interesting. Care to contribute some of your own that add to or argue against the GP's?
    - bamboozled 6y ago
      "I think there has been a general decrease in the value placed on self discipline." This is 100% just an opinion. I could also say that there are a LOT of people who are training harder and dieting due to things they see on Instaram for example. It's really just hard to quantify something like this and it's really just a subjective opinion.
      - paulmooreparks 6y ago
        He said, "I think there has been...", not, "Studies have shown that there has been...", which implies that it's a statement of opinion. In the context of the discussion, that makes perfect sense. What's the problem?
      - zdragnar 6y ago
        If you want objective data, look at obesity levels, that is fairly well studied. Instagram is popular (and, I think, contributes to the culture of self) but does not seem to have had a statistically significant effect on exercise habits.

zdragnar 6y ago

I think there has been a general decrease in the value placed on self discipline. Part of it is the abundance of pretty much everything, and an overall rise in the basic standard of living for the average American. Part of it is the coincidental rise in the exaltation of self- social media reputation, self promotion, self fulfillment. This change, I think, is especially evident in the change over the past decades in the American Christian communities. Churches with laws and discipline have been on a steep decline, and churches that focus on feel-good messages that basically amount to "try to be nice, it is wonderful!" seem to be becoming the norm. It isn't even just the megachurches, even Catholic traditions have largely abandoned any sense of enforcing the practice of discipline- observing dietary restrictions on Lent is more a holiday and an excuse to eat fish rather than an observation. Obviously, there are no shortage of examples of strict laws going wrong, but I do think that society as a whole could do better by practicing forms of discipline- whether religious observances, meditation, or entirely secular things like community organized walks or workout routines. The power of sacrifice, as you put it, is a strength to overcome adversity, and is a state of mind and habit that requires practice.

bamboozled 6y ago
This is called “anecdata”
- akiselev 6y ago
  Discussions are full of anecdata. That's what makes them interesting. Care to contribute some of your own that add to or argue against the GP's?
  - bamboozled 6y ago
    "I think there has been a general decrease in the value placed on self discipline." This is 100% just an opinion. I could also say that there are a LOT of people who are training harder and dieting due to things they see on Instaram for example. It's really just hard to quantify something like this and it's really just a subjective opinion.
    - paulmooreparks 6y ago
      He said, "I think there has been...", not, "Studies have shown that there has been...", which implies that it's a statement of opinion. In the context of the discussion, that makes perfect sense. What's the problem?
    - zdragnar 6y ago
      If you want objective data, look at obesity levels, that is fairly well studied. Instagram is popular (and, I think, contributes to the culture of self) but does not seem to have had a statistically significant effect on exercise habits.