9 ms·

Essentials of Programming Languages

237 points by gjvc 6y ago

waynesonfire 6y ago
table of contents would be nice.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fernly 6y ago
  Not quite the same but the preface lists the chapter topics. http://eopl3.com/preface.html http://eopl3.com/preface.html
kesava 6y ago
Dr.Racket has a `#lang eopl` to support the second/third editions: https://docs.racket-lang.org/eopl/index.html https://docs.racket-lang.org/eopl/index.html The first edition seems to build a tower of abstractions gradually, than directly jumping into the deep end of the pool. But getting code from first edition to run on Dr.Racket is quite a trouble. Can someone well versed with Racket macros, please write `define-record` to work with `#lang eopl`? I can figure out the macros with some effort, but cant quite figure out how to extend an existing lang.
- soegaard 6y ago
  Just tested and `(require foo)` works fine in `#lang eopl`. That is, if you define `define-macro` and put it in package, say, `eopl1`, then you can use #lang eopl (require eopl1)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kesava 6y ago
    Thank you for that pointer. I have been trying a few approaches but hit a serious wall. I have a write up on what I tried so far. Could you please take a look and give me some pointers/feedback? Thanks in advance! https://gist.github.com/kesava/ec1518495387928d35ec9fc5a764ddbf https://gist.github.com/kesava/ec1518495387928d35ec9fc5a764d...
jasperry 6y ago
I was a TA for a programming languages course taught using this book, and it was one of the most enlightening experiences I've had: Implementing interpreters in Scheme to learn about recursion, environments, closures, objects, continuations. I think of it kind of as the dual of a course on developing a compiler for a static languages.
- ipnon 6y ago
  Studying programming languages has the same side effects as studying AI. You have to learn some broadly applicable programming tricks to get your programs running. I see closures everywhere after writing my own programming language. Someone might use backtracking in a new domain after studying AI.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    One revelation I got from programming a hobby language was that many language feutures seems accidental.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      Could you elaborate please?
      - rightbyte 6y ago
        It's hard to explain but it was a feeling I got. It felt like the language fell into place on it's own when you added stuff and not in a way other code projects do. Parsing with flex/bison "naturally" converged syntax towards other languages because other languages are made so they are easy to write grammar for etc. Whether an "if(exp)" introduces a scope of is own is just down to where you happen to put the push_scope() call, and so on. I wonder how much of C that was just "that is how it happened to turn out".
        coldtea 6y ago
ExcavateGrandMa 6y ago
I wanted to learn more about EOPL 2, an HTML page appeared and then browser refresh'd to 404... it was surprising :D What kind of programming language is used in the book? What the summary?
systems 6y ago
between this book and Programming Language Pragmatics ( Michael Scott ), which is the better book ? (the are both very expensive, I can only afford one, if there is another less expensive and just as good or better option, please recommend)
- SanderSantema 6y ago
  You might want to google for Library Genesis and see if you can find them there to compare these and buy one of them afterwards.
- jasperry 6y ago
  Programming Language Pragmatics is much more a reference book, to dip into for a not-too-theoretical discussion of a broad range of PL topics. EOPL is all about understanding fundamentals by implementing interpreters, with code that builds through the book. I use both, but I would choose EOPL as the book for a "proper" course in programming languages.
- kesava 6y ago
  A used first edition of EOPL is way cheaper and far better in developing the subject matter than the latter versions. There is even a chapter on Type checking and interference: ftp://ftp.cs.indiana.edu/pub/techreports/TR491.pdf
  - abecedarius 6y ago
    The way I'd put it is that later editions are more focused on classroom use, while the first edition felt closer to my interests as a hacker. The later editions do have many improvements like a nicer development of the CPS transformation, but they also dropped the chapter on compiling by transforming an interpreter, and so on.
    - bmitc 6y ago
      This is curious to me. Because I first bought the 3rd and latest edition of this book, as you do, but then I read reviews that the 2nd edition was superior. So I picked up the 2nd edition since I saw it for a cheap price used. Now, here I am reading that the 1st edition is better. Haha. What would you recommend for someone to start with regarding this particular book? (I haven't gone through the book yet.) Is there a technical reason why material was changed so drastically, or is it more along the lines of streamlining things for a university course? Are the things left out in the subsequent editions interesting but not useful or are they interesting and useful but not conducive to fitting into a one or two semester course sequence?
zelphirkalt 6y ago
The MIT Press page is a 404 unfortunately.
- CalChris 6y ago
  The book is 2008.
  - zelphirkalt 6y ago
    Does this mean I cannot expect MIT Press to keep pages for a touch older book alive or the page of the book to link to the correct MIT Press page?
- mitchbob 6y ago
  This works: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-languages-third-edition https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-langua...
saxonww 6y ago
The MIT Press site implies there might be a Kindle edition for this, but the Amazon store page doesn't mention one. It also offers etextbook rental, but the link goes to a page with no options for that afaict. I see where there are epubs offered online for prior editions, but they look sketchy. Is this textbook legitimately available in any ebook format?
- jagged-chisel 6y ago
  I get a 404 on the MIT Press link. What link did you use? Edit: Visiting MIT Press and searching finds this[1], and I also cannot find a single digital option for this book. 1 - https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-languages-third-edition https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-langua...
thesizeofa 6y ago
isnt gjvc the dude who frequents #freebsd on efnet?
siraben 6y ago
I read EOPL independently in high school, and I thoroughly enjoyed it because it had a good balance between theory and practice. I would consider Types and Programming Languages to be theory-based, EOPL in the middle and SICP to be practice-based. (My personal order was SICP -> EOPL -> TAPL) It's a great exercise to implement[0] the languages from EOPL. I think it fits a lot better in a statically typed language like Haskell (the parsing can be done with parser combinators), since they essentially have to re-create ADTs with macros in Scheme, when they could be easily embedded into the host language. The effectful interpreters could have their effects encapsulated in a monad transformer stack. [0] https://github.com/siraben/eopl https://github.com/siraben/eopl
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  I would also suggest "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming", "How to Design Programs" (second edition: https://htdp.org/2020-8-1/Book/index.html https://htdp.org/2020-8-1/Book/index.html), and the books in "The little X" series (such as The little schemer).
kgoutham93 6y ago
Apart from Coursera's course "programming languages", are there any other courses which teach interesting concepts from different programming languages instead of zeroing on 1 language.

237 points by gjvc 6y ago

waynesonfire 6y ago

table of contents would be nice.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fernly 6y ago
Not quite the same but the preface lists the chapter topics. http://eopl3.com/preface.html http://eopl3.com/preface.html

kesava 6y ago

Dr.Racket has a `#lang eopl` to support the second/third editions: https://docs.racket-lang.org/eopl/index.html https://docs.racket-lang.org/eopl/index.html The first edition seems to build a tower of abstractions gradually, than directly jumping into the deep end of the pool. But getting code from first edition to run on Dr.Racket is quite a trouble. Can someone well versed with Racket macros, please write `define-record` to work with `#lang eopl`? I can figure out the macros with some effort, but cant quite figure out how to extend an existing lang.

soegaard 6y ago
Just tested and `(require foo)` works fine in `#lang eopl`. That is, if you define `define-macro` and put it in package, say, `eopl1`, then you can use #lang eopl (require eopl1)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kesava 6y ago
  Thank you for that pointer. I have been trying a few approaches but hit a serious wall. I have a write up on what I tried so far. Could you please take a look and give me some pointers/feedback? Thanks in advance! https://gist.github.com/kesava/ec1518495387928d35ec9fc5a764ddbf https://gist.github.com/kesava/ec1518495387928d35ec9fc5a764d...

jasperry 6y ago

I was a TA for a programming languages course taught using this book, and it was one of the most enlightening experiences I've had: Implementing interpreters in Scheme to learn about recursion, environments, closures, objects, continuations. I think of it kind of as the dual of a course on developing a compiler for a static languages.

ipnon 6y ago
Studying programming languages has the same side effects as studying AI. You have to learn some broadly applicable programming tricks to get your programs running. I see closures everywhere after writing my own programming language. Someone might use backtracking in a new domain after studying AI.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  One revelation I got from programming a hobby language was that many language feutures seems accidental.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Could you elaborate please?
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      It's hard to explain but it was a feeling I got. It felt like the language fell into place on it's own when you added stuff and not in a way other code projects do. Parsing with flex/bison "naturally" converged syntax towards other languages because other languages are made so they are easy to write grammar for etc. Whether an "if(exp)" introduces a scope of is own is just down to where you happen to put the push_scope() call, and so on. I wonder how much of C that was just "that is how it happened to turn out".
      - coldtea 6y ago

ExcavateGrandMa 6y ago

I wanted to learn more about EOPL 2, an HTML page appeared and then browser refresh'd to 404... it was surprising :D What kind of programming language is used in the book? What the summary?

systems 6y ago

between this book and Programming Language Pragmatics ( Michael Scott ), which is the better book ? (the are both very expensive, I can only afford one, if there is another less expensive and just as good or better option, please recommend)

SanderSantema 6y ago
You might want to google for Library Genesis and see if you can find them there to compare these and buy one of them afterwards.
jasperry 6y ago
Programming Language Pragmatics is much more a reference book, to dip into for a not-too-theoretical discussion of a broad range of PL topics. EOPL is all about understanding fundamentals by implementing interpreters, with code that builds through the book. I use both, but I would choose EOPL as the book for a "proper" course in programming languages.
kesava 6y ago
A used first edition of EOPL is way cheaper and far better in developing the subject matter than the latter versions. There is even a chapter on Type checking and interference: ftp://ftp.cs.indiana.edu/pub/techreports/TR491.pdf
- abecedarius 6y ago
  The way I'd put it is that later editions are more focused on classroom use, while the first edition felt closer to my interests as a hacker. The later editions do have many improvements like a nicer development of the CPS transformation, but they also dropped the chapter on compiling by transforming an interpreter, and so on.
  - bmitc 6y ago
    This is curious to me. Because I first bought the 3rd and latest edition of this book, as you do, but then I read reviews that the 2nd edition was superior. So I picked up the 2nd edition since I saw it for a cheap price used. Now, here I am reading that the 1st edition is better. Haha. What would you recommend for someone to start with regarding this particular book? (I haven't gone through the book yet.) Is there a technical reason why material was changed so drastically, or is it more along the lines of streamlining things for a university course? Are the things left out in the subsequent editions interesting but not useful or are they interesting and useful but not conducive to fitting into a one or two semester course sequence?

zelphirkalt 6y ago

The MIT Press page is a 404 unfortunately.

CalChris 6y ago
The book is 2008.
- zelphirkalt 6y ago
  Does this mean I cannot expect MIT Press to keep pages for a touch older book alive or the page of the book to link to the correct MIT Press page?
mitchbob 6y ago
This works: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-languages-third-edition https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-langua...

saxonww 6y ago

The MIT Press site implies there might be a Kindle edition for this, but the Amazon store page doesn't mention one. It also offers etextbook rental, but the link goes to a page with no options for that afaict. I see where there are epubs offered online for prior editions, but they look sketchy. Is this textbook legitimately available in any ebook format?

jagged-chisel 6y ago
I get a 404 on the MIT Press link. What link did you use? Edit: Visiting MIT Press and searching finds this[1], and I also cannot find a single digital option for this book. 1 - https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-languages-third-edition https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/essentials-programming-langua...

thesizeofa 6y ago

isnt gjvc the dude who frequents #freebsd on efnet?

siraben 6y ago

I read EOPL independently in high school, and I thoroughly enjoyed it because it had a good balance between theory and practice. I would consider Types and Programming Languages to be theory-based, EOPL in the middle and SICP to be practice-based. (My personal order was SICP -> EOPL -> TAPL) It's a great exercise to implement[0] the languages from EOPL. I think it fits a lot better in a statically typed language like Haskell (the parsing can be done with parser combinators), since they essentially have to re-create ADTs with macros in Scheme, when they could be easily embedded into the host language. The effectful interpreters could have their effects encapsulated in a monad transformer stack. [0] https://github.com/siraben/eopl https://github.com/siraben/eopl

dependenttypes 6y ago
I would also suggest "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming", "How to Design Programs" (second edition: https://htdp.org/2020-8-1/Book/index.html https://htdp.org/2020-8-1/Book/index.html), and the books in "The little X" series (such as The little schemer).

kgoutham93 6y ago

Apart from Coursera's course "programming languages", are there any other courses which teach interesting concepts from different programming languages instead of zeroing on 1 language.