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> But what if Harvard had enough capacity to admit everyone who met its admissions standards? What if the admission criteria is top n candidates? (not top n %

> But what if Harvard had enough capacity to admit everyone who met its admissions standards? What if the admission criteria is top n candidates? (not top n % of the candidates, mind you), which is very likely (and valid criteria for Top Schools, with legacy/brand to defend, limited/finite resources/talent pool, which would not scale lineary, IMO)

jonnathanson 16y ago
Such a system would actually work out to be more exclusionary if the size of the application pool increases year over year (which, in praxis, it has been). At least a percentage-based system scales up with the size of the application group. A fixed class size does not. For what it's worth, as well, I'm pretty sure that your system is the one actually being used. I would imagine -- but do not know for certain -- that schools like Harvard try to keep class sizes relatively fixed. It's not that their policy is to admit n% of all applicants, but rather, that their policy is to admit n students, and the size of the pool feeding into n keeps going up. Indices, rankings, and people commonly report only the percentage. But the percentage is an output of the system and not an input.
michaelochurch 16y ago
Harvard's minimal admissions standards are very low compared to the actual difficulty of getting in. Harvard invented the SAT with the idea in mind that 550 meant "probably sufficient to be admitted to Harvard" and 600 meant "conclusively good enough". Re-centering changed the numbers a bit: it's a difference of about 80 points on the verbal (i.e. a 700 now would have been 620 then). So, 1280 (or 1920 on the 2400 scale) is conclusively smart enough to attend Harvard. And the average student with a 1280, while he's not going to be an academic star, is good enough to pass through Harvard with acceptable grades. However, if Harvard dropped its admissions criteria to that level, it'd be forced to take in several times as many students as it does. Consequently, you're not getting in with a 1250-1400 unless your parents are very well-established. I don't think it's worth it for people to get bent out of shape about the difficulty of getting into elite colleges. It's just supply and demand. There's nothing personal about it, and the idea that bleary-eyed admissions officers making quick judgments at 7:45 pm after a string of 14-hour days can make meaningfully "holisitic" assessments of a person's character and future prospects for success, well... that's just laughable. Besides, an elite degree may have made a person set for life at one time, but that era ended a long time ago.

jonnathanson 16y ago

Such a system would actually work out to be more exclusionary if the size of the application pool increases year over year (which, in praxis, it has been). At least a percentage-based system scales up with the size of the application group. A fixed class size does not. For what it's worth, as well, I'm pretty sure that your system is the one actually being used. I would imagine -- but do not know for certain -- that schools like Harvard try to keep class sizes relatively fixed. It's not that their policy is to admit n% of all applicants, but rather, that their policy is to admit n students, and the size of the pool feeding into n keeps going up. Indices, rankings, and people commonly report only the percentage. But the percentage is an output of the system and not an input.

michaelochurch 16y ago

Harvard's minimal admissions standards are very low compared to the actual difficulty of getting in. Harvard invented the SAT with the idea in mind that 550 meant "probably sufficient to be admitted to Harvard" and 600 meant "conclusively good enough". Re-centering changed the numbers a bit: it's a difference of about 80 points on the verbal (i.e. a 700 now would have been 620 then). So, 1280 (or 1920 on the 2400 scale) is conclusively smart enough to attend Harvard. And the average student with a 1280, while he's not going to be an academic star, is good enough to pass through Harvard with acceptable grades. However, if Harvard dropped its admissions criteria to that level, it'd be forced to take in several times as many students as it does. Consequently, you're not getting in with a 1250-1400 unless your parents are very well-established. I don't think it's worth it for people to get bent out of shape about the difficulty of getting into elite colleges. It's just supply and demand. There's nothing personal about it, and the idea that bleary-eyed admissions officers making quick judgments at 7:45 pm after a string of 14-hour days can make meaningfully "holisitic" assessments of a person's character and future prospects for success, well... that's just laughable. Besides, an elite degree may have made a person set for life at one time, but that era ended a long time ago.