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That couldn't work, unfortunately, per https://www.ffdn.org/en/charter-good-practices-and-common-commitments https://www.ffdn.org/en/charter-good-practices-and-

by q3k 6y ago

That couldn't work, unfortunately, per https://www.ffdn.org/en/charter-good-practices-and-common-commitments https://www.ffdn.org/en/charter-good-practices-and-common-co... : > All subscribers to Internet access provided by the provider must be members of the provider and must have the corresponding rights, including the right to vote, within reasonable time and procedure. Not all of our subscribers are members of our association. The association is primarily a hackerspace with hackerspace members being members of the association. We just happen to also be an ISP selling services commercially (eg. to people colocating equipment with us, or buying FTTH connectivity in the building we're located in).

MayeulC 6y ago
Ah, that's interesting, thank you for pointing this out to me, I didn't know about it. I take it that this isn't the first time you are asked about this, then? Well, I on one hand I perfectly understand you not wanting to change your structure, especially if it works fine. On the other, can see a few ways around that restriction, and don't really see how having the ISP a separate association with its customers as members (maybe with their votes having less weight than hackerspace members) would have a downside (except if funds are primarilly collected for funding hackerspace activities?).
- q3k 6y ago
  > I take it that this isn't the first time you are asked about this, then? First time, but I read the rules carefully :). > [I] don't really see how having the ISP a separate association with its customers as members [...] would have a downside [...] Paperwork, in time and actual accounting fees. If/when we grow, this might happen - but for now it's just not worth the extra effort. We're not even breaking even on this, just using whatever extra income from customers to offset the costs of our own Internet infrastructure for the hackerspace. We don't even have enough customers to legally start a separate association with them as members, as far as I understand. I also don't think our customers would necessarily be interested in becoming members of an association, they just want good and cheap Internet access and/or mediocre and cheap colocation space.

by q3k 6y ago

MayeulC 6y ago

Ah, that's interesting, thank you for pointing this out to me, I didn't know about it. I take it that this isn't the first time you are asked about this, then? Well, I on one hand I perfectly understand you not wanting to change your structure, especially if it works fine. On the other, can see a few ways around that restriction, and don't really see how having the ISP a separate association with its customers as members (maybe with their votes having less weight than hackerspace members) would have a downside (except if funds are primarilly collected for funding hackerspace activities?).

q3k 6y ago
> I take it that this isn't the first time you are asked about this, then? First time, but I read the rules carefully :). > [I] don't really see how having the ISP a separate association with its customers as members [...] would have a downside [...] Paperwork, in time and actual accounting fees. If/when we grow, this might happen - but for now it's just not worth the extra effort. We're not even breaking even on this, just using whatever extra income from customers to offset the costs of our own Internet infrastructure for the hackerspace. We don't even have enough customers to legally start a separate association with them as members, as far as I understand. I also don't think our customers would necessarily be interested in becoming members of an association, they just want good and cheap Internet access and/or mediocre and cheap colocation space.