4 ms·

From the other (Cloudflare) thread (post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322603), the outages list (https:

by tpmx 6y ago

From the other (Cloudflare) thread (post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322603), the outages list (https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages). https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/thread.html https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/thread... Not a network engineer, but based on the comments there it looks like it's a BGP blackhole incident. Edit: removed details about the similarity to a 1997 incident based in input from commenters.

jsjohnst 6y ago
> Not a network engineer, but based on the comments there it looks like it's a BGP blackhole incident, possibly reminiscent of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_7007_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_7007_incident in 1997. As you aren’t a network engineer, I can understand making that leap based on the context, but no, this is nothing like the AS7007 event. The “black hole” in this case is due to networks pulling their routes via AS3356 to try and avoid their outage, but when they do, CenturyLink is still announcing those routes and as such those networks blackhole.
- tpmx 6y ago
  So it's not a BGP blackhole incident then?
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    Not all BGP blackholes are the same. The AS7007 incident from over twenty years ago is an entirely different cause, and thus unrelated.
    - tpmx 6y ago
      What I take from that: It is a BGP blackhole incident.
      - jsjohnst 6y ago
        What I take from this is that you’re offering input to a thread which you don’t have experience in or even actually understand, thus are spreading misinformation. You then are continually doubling down further showing your maturity. You aren’t helping, so please stop.
        tpmx 6y ago
        I'd wager I'm not spreading disinforming because of said disclaimer and links to emails, but whatatever floats your boat.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        Chris Adams made an exasperated comment[0] in the heat of the moment of dealing with an outage. You posting it here and positing it as a possibly valid information is the very definition of spreading misinformation and you did it for what gain? Maybe if multiple folks were saying it or at least agreeing with Chris, it might be different. Long story short, admit you’re wrong and just move on. [0] https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013199.html https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013199...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        > My current theory: The current Internet with the crappy BGP security model is the way it is because it was built by network admins turned amateur software developers. We need raise the level of software quality in the core parts of the net. Further proving my point. Thanks and have a great day!
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
waheoo 6y ago
You're not a network engineer but it looks like a blackhole incident to you? This is how people die in bushfires.
- tpmx 6y ago
  Heh, I knew I was setting myself up for that from networking people - i know the attitude. I was of course merely repeating the sentiment in that thread. What more disclaimers do you need to avoid displaying your superiority in networking? Sheesh.
  - waheoo 6y ago
    You were repeating a suspicion as if it was yours, as if it was a shared view in that thread, it wasn't, i'm not a network engineer but I read the thread too, nobody needs people spreading misinformation in a crisis just to sound smart, its not useful and usually harmful. No superiority here.
    - tpmx 6y ago
      > You were repeating a suspicion as if it was yours That is a misrepresentation. I wrote: "Not a network engineer, but based on the comments there". I prefaced the insecure speculation part with "possibly". It was obvious to any reader this was a summary of the emails there. You are overreacting.
      - waheoo 6y ago
        > You're not a network engineer but it looks like a blackhole incident to you? I'm the one overreacting? All I did was ask you if it was your opinion or not.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        To be fair, when combined with your next sentence after the one you quoted, it was a bit flamebaity, but I agree otherwise.

by tpmx 6y ago

jsjohnst 6y ago

> Not a network engineer, but based on the comments there it looks like it's a BGP blackhole incident, possibly reminiscent of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_7007_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_7007_incident in 1997. As you aren’t a network engineer, I can understand making that leap based on the context, but no, this is nothing like the AS7007 event. The “black hole” in this case is due to networks pulling their routes via AS3356 to try and avoid their outage, but when they do, CenturyLink is still announcing those routes and as such those networks blackhole.

tpmx 6y ago
So it's not a BGP blackhole incident then?
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  Not all BGP blackholes are the same. The AS7007 incident from over twenty years ago is an entirely different cause, and thus unrelated.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    What I take from that: It is a BGP blackhole incident.
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      What I take from this is that you’re offering input to a thread which you don’t have experience in or even actually understand, thus are spreading misinformation. You then are continually doubling down further showing your maturity. You aren’t helping, so please stop.
      - tpmx 6y ago
        I'd wager I'm not spreading disinforming because of said disclaimer and links to emails, but whatatever floats your boat.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        Chris Adams made an exasperated comment[0] in the heat of the moment of dealing with an outage. You posting it here and positing it as a possibly valid information is the very definition of spreading misinformation and you did it for what gain? Maybe if multiple folks were saying it or at least agreeing with Chris, it might be different. Long story short, admit you’re wrong and just move on. [0] https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013199.html https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013199...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        > My current theory: The current Internet with the crappy BGP security model is the way it is because it was built by network admins turned amateur software developers. We need raise the level of software quality in the core parts of the net. Further proving my point. Thanks and have a great day!
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

waheoo 6y ago

You're not a network engineer but it looks like a blackhole incident to you? This is how people die in bushfires.

tpmx 6y ago
Heh, I knew I was setting myself up for that from networking people - i know the attitude. I was of course merely repeating the sentiment in that thread. What more disclaimers do you need to avoid displaying your superiority in networking? Sheesh.
- waheoo 6y ago
  You were repeating a suspicion as if it was yours, as if it was a shared view in that thread, it wasn't, i'm not a network engineer but I read the thread too, nobody needs people spreading misinformation in a crisis just to sound smart, its not useful and usually harmful. No superiority here.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    > You were repeating a suspicion as if it was yours That is a misrepresentation. I wrote: "Not a network engineer, but based on the comments there". I prefaced the insecure speculation part with "possibly". It was obvious to any reader this was a summary of the emails there. You are overreacting.
    - waheoo 6y ago
      > You're not a network engineer but it looks like a blackhole incident to you? I'm the one overreacting? All I did was ask you if it was your opinion or not.
      - jsjohnst 6y ago
        To be fair, when combined with your next sentence after the one you quoted, it was a bit flamebaity, but I agree otherwise.