6 ms·

Full-time job in Germany is also usually that long. But it's an average, not a median.

by s9w 6y ago

yokaze 6y ago
Which shows how inadequate the statistic is for the discussion of the subject. The reduction of working hours applies only to a subset of work (industry full-time employment). I would bet the average is so low because of a large part of low paying part-time jobs, which are heavily subventioned / pay no or low social security & taxes, saved likely also the disincentivation of pmarried mothers working full time (not by law, but in effect).
- foolmeonce 6y ago
  > low paying part-time jobs Using part time to discriminate is more of a US phenomenon. Most older people and people with kids prefer 80% jobs which have correctly prorated salary, so 80% may average higher salary than 100% in these countries. Other jobs also. There are still some connections in pay like food service is open to students, part time, and lower paid.
- em-bee 6y ago
  full-time work is 35 hours. from the article: In 2018, it won workers the right to reduce their working week from 35 hours to 28 for two years to increase flexibility, particularly for workers with caring responsibilities. this is not talking about averages, but about full-time work hours.
  - yokaze 6y ago
    It starts right with: > At 34.2 hours, Germany already has one of the shortest average working weeks in Europe. And there are loud voices calling for it to be shorter still. And then the "graphic of usual hours of work of employees", and then goes on with 35h per week (in the metal working industry). As others pointed out, 40h per week is quite often the standard, the lower average cited right in the beginning can be explained differently, than large parts of the population enjoying a relaxed safe full-time employment with less than 40h per week, which is kind of implied by the setup of the article.
    - em-bee 6y ago
      but in germany 35 hours IS the standard (not just in the metal industry) . if 34.5 is the average, then that's not far from the standard. so the claim that part time work influences the measured average does not really fit.
      - yokaze 6y ago
        Then you better correct the Wikipedia page listing the nominal working hours most of them exceeding the 35h (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenarbeitszeit https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenarbeitszeit), and I and the people further up in the thread have to sue our former /current employers, which contracted us with 40h/week.
        em-bee 6y ago
        all those entries list the hours in specific industries. what we can't tell from that table is how many jobs that actually covers. ig-metall is the largest union representing about 2/5 of all unionized employees in germany. keep in mind that in most cases a union agreement is applied to all employees, not just the union members, so many more jobs than union members are affected. that said, there is likely something wrong with that 34.5 average because i found other articles claiming an average of 37.5 and yet another of 41 hours. while i still believe that the 35 hour week has a large impact on the result, it is less large than i thought.
        yokaze 6y ago
        > ig-metall is the largest union representing about 2/5 of all unionized employees in germany. keep in mind that in most cases a union agreement is applied to all employees, not just the union members, so many more jobs than union members are affected. Yes, but those union agreements are per industry and/or company, depending if there is an industry agreement or not. That's why the hours are listed per industry. And they only apply to non-members, if the union has the mandate to negotiate on behalf of all workers, e.g. there is not another competing union with a sizable membership (not sure about the exact criteria). I worked at SAP, and ig-metall is a union there (not the only one). Different industry, no industry-wide union agreements. Ergo 40h per week. This is also the default by law, if the exact hours are not defined.

Full-time job in Germany is also usually that long. But it's an average, not a median.

by s9w 6y ago

Full-time job in Germany is also usually that long. But it's an average, not a median.

Which shows how inadequate the statistic is for the discussion of the subject. The reduction of working hours applies only to a subset of work (industry full-time employment). I would bet the average is so low because of a large part of low paying part-time jobs, which are heavily subventioned / pay no or low social security & taxes, saved likely also the disincentivation of pmarried mothers working full time (not by law, but in effect).

foolmeonce 6y ago
> low paying part-time jobs Using part time to discriminate is more of a US phenomenon. Most older people and people with kids prefer 80% jobs which have correctly prorated salary, so 80% may average higher salary than 100% in these countries. Other jobs also. There are still some connections in pay like food service is open to students, part time, and lower paid.
em-bee 6y ago
full-time work is 35 hours. from the article: In 2018, it won workers the right to reduce their working week from 35 hours to 28 for two years to increase flexibility, particularly for workers with caring responsibilities. this is not talking about averages, but about full-time work hours.
- yokaze 6y ago
  It starts right with: > At 34.2 hours, Germany already has one of the shortest average working weeks in Europe. And there are loud voices calling for it to be shorter still. And then the "graphic of usual hours of work of employees", and then goes on with 35h per week (in the metal working industry). As others pointed out, 40h per week is quite often the standard, the lower average cited right in the beginning can be explained differently, than large parts of the population enjoying a relaxed safe full-time employment with less than 40h per week, which is kind of implied by the setup of the article.
  - em-bee 6y ago
    but in germany 35 hours IS the standard (not just in the metal industry) . if 34.5 is the average, then that's not far from the standard. so the claim that part time work influences the measured average does not really fit.
    - yokaze 6y ago
      Then you better correct the Wikipedia page listing the nominal working hours most of them exceeding the 35h (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenarbeitszeit https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenarbeitszeit), and I and the people further up in the thread have to sue our former /current employers, which contracted us with 40h/week.
      - em-bee 6y ago
        all those entries list the hours in specific industries. what we can't tell from that table is how many jobs that actually covers. ig-metall is the largest union representing about 2/5 of all unionized employees in germany. keep in mind that in most cases a union agreement is applied to all employees, not just the union members, so many more jobs than union members are affected. that said, there is likely something wrong with that 34.5 average because i found other articles claiming an average of 37.5 and yet another of 41 hours. while i still believe that the 35 hour week has a large impact on the result, it is less large than i thought.
        yokaze 6y ago
        > ig-metall is the largest union representing about 2/5 of all unionized employees in germany. keep in mind that in most cases a union agreement is applied to all employees, not just the union members, so many more jobs than union members are affected. Yes, but those union agreements are per industry and/or company, depending if there is an industry agreement or not. That's why the hours are listed per industry. And they only apply to non-members, if the union has the mandate to negotiate on behalf of all workers, e.g. there is not another competing union with a sizable membership (not sure about the exact criteria). I worked at SAP, and ig-metall is a union there (not the only one). Different industry, no industry-wide union agreements. Ergo 40h per week. This is also the default by law, if the exact hours are not defined.