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The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell, launched in 2016, has an EPA-estimated range of 360 miles, for around the same price as the Mirai. Unfortunately, you can only leas

by plun9 6y ago

The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell, launched in 2016, has an EPA-estimated range of 360 miles, for around the same price as the Mirai. Unfortunately, you can only lease it. The Hyundai Nexo SUV has a range of 380 miles, also for around the same price as the Mirai. Toyota will launch a redesigned Mirai in a couple of months, with a claimed range of over 400 miles. BEVs are only lighter in certain cases, like passenger cars. They become heavier/provide less range than the FCEV equivalent for larger sizes, like with large SUVs, pickup/semi-trailer trucks, etc. Additionally, electrified boats, ships, trains, and airplanes will likely make use of fuel cells. FCEVs have the advantage of faster (5-minute) refueling, a low self-discharge rate, and have better resistance to temperature extremes. Current FCEV production numbers are very low. As FCEV production increases, the cost will come down: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydrogen-boss-explains-how-fuel-cells-can-achieve-corolla-costs https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydroge.... An FCEV would make a good option for someone who wants to drive a completely electric car but who doesn't have convenient access to charging stations. Perhaps they live in an apartment and/or work at a place with a limited number of/no charging stations.

Robotbeat 6y ago
BEVs are also now available at over 360-400 mile range. And the 2021 model year Lucid Air has an estimated EPA range of over 500 miles. So I disagree. Electric infrastructure is FAR more plentiful, and fundamentally so because we already have an electric grid but not a hydrogen grid. On-site production of hydrogen is very expensive and less efficient than centralized production, but central production has significant distribution costs. To get the 5 minute refuel time requires cryogenic cooling of hydrogen, which itself requires energy (continuously to keep it cool and ready). The 5 minute charge time is a best case, too, because it typically takes time to cool the hydrogen. So the first user may experience 5 minute refueling, but the next user has 15-20 minute refuel time. And because the refueling stations are so expensive and because workplace and home and destination refueling are not feasible, there end up being lines for the rare refueling stations, so practical refueling times can be (and often are) much higher. Not only that, but many hydrogen refueling stations only refuel up to half capacity, 5000psi instead of 10,000psi. Another issue is that typically, hydrogen is delivered and not produced on-site. There is a limited amount of hydrogen available at any one time, therefore, and hydrogen fuel stations can and do run out. (I checked, and typical hydrogen fueling stations in California have around 50-200kg of hydrogen available at any one time, and each kg gets about 62 miles in the Mirai, so maybe equivalent to 70-300 gallons of gasoline... compared to about 10,000-30,000 gallons of capacity at a typical gas station, two orders of magnitude greater capacity and able to be refueled by one or two trucks which can also carry over an order of magnitude more gasoline than the gasoline-equivalent hydrogen in a hydrogen delivery truck.) Even without home charging, it’s much more practical to have an electric vehicle than a hydrogen one because of the fundamentally cheaper electric charging infrastructure. For instance, you can charge your electric car in more places than just California! Hydrogen is marketed as if it solves range anxiety when in reality it's far, far worse and electric cars are now accomplishing ranges equivalent to gas cars and so therefore can be recharged in a similar manner as to a gas car even without initiatives to make home, work, and destination charging more ubiquitous than it already is.

by plun9 6y ago

Robotbeat 6y ago

BEVs are also now available at over 360-400 mile range. And the 2021 model year Lucid Air has an estimated EPA range of over 500 miles. So I disagree. Electric infrastructure is FAR more plentiful, and fundamentally so because we already have an electric grid but not a hydrogen grid. On-site production of hydrogen is very expensive and less efficient than centralized production, but central production has significant distribution costs. To get the 5 minute refuel time requires cryogenic cooling of hydrogen, which itself requires energy (continuously to keep it cool and ready). The 5 minute charge time is a best case, too, because it typically takes time to cool the hydrogen. So the first user may experience 5 minute refueling, but the next user has 15-20 minute refuel time. And because the refueling stations are so expensive and because workplace and home and destination refueling are not feasible, there end up being lines for the rare refueling stations, so practical refueling times can be (and often are) much higher. Not only that, but many hydrogen refueling stations only refuel up to half capacity, 5000psi instead of 10,000psi. Another issue is that typically, hydrogen is delivered and not produced on-site. There is a limited amount of hydrogen available at any one time, therefore, and hydrogen fuel stations can and do run out. (I checked, and typical hydrogen fueling stations in California have around 50-200kg of hydrogen available at any one time, and each kg gets about 62 miles in the Mirai, so maybe equivalent to 70-300 gallons of gasoline... compared to about 10,000-30,000 gallons of capacity at a typical gas station, two orders of magnitude greater capacity and able to be refueled by one or two trucks which can also carry over an order of magnitude more gasoline than the gasoline-equivalent hydrogen in a hydrogen delivery truck.) Even without home charging, it’s much more practical to have an electric vehicle than a hydrogen one because of the fundamentally cheaper electric charging infrastructure. For instance, you can charge your electric car in more places than just California! Hydrogen is marketed as if it solves range anxiety when in reality it's far, far worse and electric cars are now accomplishing ranges equivalent to gas cars and so therefore can be recharged in a similar manner as to a gas car even without initiatives to make home, work, and destination charging more ubiquitous than it already is.