9 ms·

While some of what you are writing is probably true, a work day (especially pre-COVID), really takes up a lot more than 8hrs. If you live in a city and want to

While some of what you are writing is probably true, a work day (especially pre-COVID), really takes up a lot more than 8hrs. If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way. You have to get up a little early to prep for the day. Some jobs don't count a lunch break towards your 8hr day, or expect you to stay later, so you end up working more like 9hrs. If you factor in ~30-60mins chores that you do after work such as cooking/cleaning its easy to take up ~10-12hrs doing _work type_ stuff. So, if you're getting a full 8hrs sleep, how much time does that leave you on an avg work night to do things that _you_ want to do? Like 4hrs? And do you really want to spend all those 4hrs being productive? People need to relax and unwind at some point. If you follow the pomodoro technique and use 5min for leisure every 30 mins, you end up with only ~40mins of "leisure" in that type of day. What if you want to do things like spend an hour working out at the gym / looking after physical health? What if you are single and want to spend some time dating? It quickly drains away at any time you would have to spend on your own personal projects, interests, hobbies.

WD-42 6y ago
Not to mention the 8 hour work day (9-5) are your prime waking hours. It takes a lot of discipline to be productive outside of them.
- Insanity 6y ago
  I suspect this 9->5 is more 'by convention' than an actual fact? For me, I am not that productive before lunch and have to push myself, but on the other hand I can easily be productive in the afternoon and evening.
  - WD-42 6y ago
    Yea, everyone is different. The point I was trying to make is more that dedicating your prime waking hours 5 days a week to a single employer is actually a lot when you think about it.
andreilys 6y ago
“ If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way” Here’s a suggestion: don’t live an hour away from work? With more companies going permanent remote, I find the whole concept of commuting for 2 hours round trip a day unimaginable. Especially for those of us working in Tech that don’t need a physical presence to deliver results.
- asya999 6y ago
  Pre-COVID that was the reality for many. But even post-COVID, certain types of commutes can actually help mentally "separate" the work time from home time. Working at home it's a lot harder to "go to work" and/or "leave work behind" when you "come home". A friend used to say that majority of people who work from home fall into one of two types of people, the kind that never go to work or the kind that never come home.
  - cmorgan31 6y ago
    Yep it’s especially prevalent in salaried technology leadership positions. I know some colleagues work from home without too much difference in productivity and stress. Unfortunately, I am the other side of that coin because I have to constantly remind myself to be disciplined. If I am left to my own devices I will be so absorbed in the work aspect and enjoyment of little wins that I won’t leave enough mental bandwidth for my personal relationships. I prefer the office to work from home assuming the hours are flexible. The location change is very key to my ability to mentally and emotionally disconnect from work.
- outtatime 6y ago
  Tell that to the voters who decided to put in Yet Another Lane on the highway instead of building housing closer to jobs. I'm going to wind up being remote for a year, and my job still refuses to let us work remotely permanently. So sorry, it's not that simple.
  - dbancajas 6y ago
    do you mind sharing what type of job? is it tech? are you a programmer? asking because not everyone on HN is a programmer.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way. You have to get up a little early to prep for the day. Some jobs don't count a lunch break towards your 8hr day, or expect you to stay later, so you end up working more like 9hrs. If you factor in ~30-60mins chores that you do after work such as cooking/cleaning its easy to take up ~10-12hrs doing _work type_ stuff. I thought the same thing, until I focused on tightening up my schedule and making active choices to minimize wasted time. If you want to live somewhere that requires 2 hours (!!) of commuting each day, take long lunch breaks away from the office, have relaxed mornings with hours between alarm going off and leaving the house, that's fine. However, you have to recognize where you're making personal choices. You don't have to choose a job and house combination that requires an hour long commute each way. You don't have to leave the office for lunch every day. You don't have to have leisurely mornings. It's perfectly fine if you choose to do those things, but you're not being completely honest with yourself if you start portraying those personal choices as completely out of your control. > And do you really want to spend all those 4hrs being productive? It's not about being productive all day every day. You can spend those 4 hours watching TV if you want, or you can spend those 4 hours going to dinner with friends, or going to the gym. It's your choice. > If you follow the pomodoro technique and use 5min for leisure every 30 mins, you end up with only ~40mins of "leisure" in that type of day. The Pomodoro technique is for work time. You shouldn't be Pomodoring you personal time after work. > What if you want to do things like spend an hour working out at the gym / looking after physical health? Make a priority and make it happen. If you spend 1 hour at the gym 3 times per week, that's less than 3% of your waking hours. Surely you can find 3% slack in your schedule somewhere? > It quickly drains away at any time you would have to spend on your own personal projects, interests, hobbies. The idea of "side projects" has become a major problem for many new grads growing up the internet era. For some reason, many of them feel obligated to be working on side projects when they're not working. They basically end up with two jobs, a day job and tending to their side projects, and then they wonder where all of their time has gone. The solution is simple: Don't do side projects if you would prefer to spend your time on something else. It's all about making active choices in how you spend your time. Once you go down the spiral of assuming everything is an obligation in your life, your schedule starts to feel out of your control. Start being honest about the choices you're making and what you want to do with your time and it becomes much easier to take control again.
BeetleB 6y ago
> If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way. Reading your comment and others beneath you, I sense many of you have a weird idea of what a city is. What you describe is true only for a minority of cities. I live in a city with above median housing prices. I live a 10 minute drive from my work. My house is not expensive - in fact, the expensive neighborhoods are farther away. Initially you may not have much of a choice on where you work, but if you go through your whole career not having that choice, you probably need to work on your career a bit. For everyone I know, they decided to make that compromise (don't want to leave awesome city, etc). For them, not having enough time in the day definitely is a choice. I agree with the rest of your accounting, but will note that there are weekends. As for gym, I just figured out exercises I can do at home with minimal equipment. It's a lot more flexible (and takes less time) than going to a gym.
- shard972 6y ago
  In countries like Australia, cities like that are defacto the majority. Sydney/Melbourne are both easily 1hr+ communes unless your loaded or willing to live in a dump (I used to do 3 hour commutes from my parents place, total 6 hour a day travel). Cities like perth are much closer to achieving less than 1hr commute without paying expensive property prices but that is by definition the minority, even Brisbane isn't that great.
- 0xdde 6y ago
  You might be the one with a weird idea of what a city is. I'd wager most people think of something like the top 20 metropolitan statistical areas by population when they hear the term. In the U.S, at least, those generally all have terrible traffic and subpar transit.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    You just made my case for me. The majority of people who live in cities in the US are not in the top 20 metropolitan areas, I think the majority will disagree with your idea of a city. Every city I've lived in was not in the top 20. And frankly, even looking at some of the top 20 areas, some of them have pretty decent traffic. I know people who live in Phoenix (ranked 10th) whose commute is definitely under half an hour one way. And they live in nice areas. Houston: Some of the major employers are in a crappy part of town. Very easy to find houses nearby, but few do so because they don't like the neighborhood. Still, the long commute is an active choice and not about affordability. Take Manhattan. I got a call from a well known company to work there. I said "No way. Expensive and long commutes." The recruiter explained: No - just live in New Jersey. If you get the right neighborhood, the commute to work by public transit will be 30-40 minutes. I checked - he was right. Those New Jersey neighborhoods were decent ones, and the houses were about the same price as mine. I haven't checked Chicago recently, but 10-15 years ago, you could easily find houses near enough the L-train such that your commute to downtown would be about 30 minutes.

WD-42 6y ago

Not to mention the 8 hour work day (9-5) are your prime waking hours. It takes a lot of discipline to be productive outside of them.

Insanity 6y ago
I suspect this 9->5 is more 'by convention' than an actual fact? For me, I am not that productive before lunch and have to push myself, but on the other hand I can easily be productive in the afternoon and evening.
- WD-42 6y ago
  Yea, everyone is different. The point I was trying to make is more that dedicating your prime waking hours 5 days a week to a single employer is actually a lot when you think about it.

andreilys 6y ago

“ If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way” Here’s a suggestion: don’t live an hour away from work? With more companies going permanent remote, I find the whole concept of commuting for 2 hours round trip a day unimaginable. Especially for those of us working in Tech that don’t need a physical presence to deliver results.

asya999 6y ago
Pre-COVID that was the reality for many. But even post-COVID, certain types of commutes can actually help mentally "separate" the work time from home time. Working at home it's a lot harder to "go to work" and/or "leave work behind" when you "come home". A friend used to say that majority of people who work from home fall into one of two types of people, the kind that never go to work or the kind that never come home.
- cmorgan31 6y ago
  Yep it’s especially prevalent in salaried technology leadership positions. I know some colleagues work from home without too much difference in productivity and stress. Unfortunately, I am the other side of that coin because I have to constantly remind myself to be disciplined. If I am left to my own devices I will be so absorbed in the work aspect and enjoyment of little wins that I won’t leave enough mental bandwidth for my personal relationships. I prefer the office to work from home assuming the hours are flexible. The location change is very key to my ability to mentally and emotionally disconnect from work.
outtatime 6y ago
Tell that to the voters who decided to put in Yet Another Lane on the highway instead of building housing closer to jobs. I'm going to wind up being remote for a year, and my job still refuses to let us work remotely permanently. So sorry, it's not that simple.
- dbancajas 6y ago
  do you mind sharing what type of job? is it tech? are you a programmer? asking because not everyone on HN is a programmer.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

> If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way. You have to get up a little early to prep for the day. Some jobs don't count a lunch break towards your 8hr day, or expect you to stay later, so you end up working more like 9hrs. If you factor in ~30-60mins chores that you do after work such as cooking/cleaning its easy to take up ~10-12hrs doing _work type_ stuff. I thought the same thing, until I focused on tightening up my schedule and making active choices to minimize wasted time. If you want to live somewhere that requires 2 hours (!!) of commuting each day, take long lunch breaks away from the office, have relaxed mornings with hours between alarm going off and leaving the house, that's fine. However, you have to recognize where you're making personal choices. You don't have to choose a job and house combination that requires an hour long commute each way. You don't have to leave the office for lunch every day. You don't have to have leisurely mornings. It's perfectly fine if you choose to do those things, but you're not being completely honest with yourself if you start portraying those personal choices as completely out of your control. > And do you really want to spend all those 4hrs being productive? It's not about being productive all day every day. You can spend those 4 hours watching TV if you want, or you can spend those 4 hours going to dinner with friends, or going to the gym. It's your choice. > If you follow the pomodoro technique and use 5min for leisure every 30 mins, you end up with only ~40mins of "leisure" in that type of day. The Pomodoro technique is for work time. You shouldn't be Pomodoring you personal time after work. > What if you want to do things like spend an hour working out at the gym / looking after physical health? Make a priority and make it happen. If you spend 1 hour at the gym 3 times per week, that's less than 3% of your waking hours. Surely you can find 3% slack in your schedule somewhere? > It quickly drains away at any time you would have to spend on your own personal projects, interests, hobbies. The idea of "side projects" has become a major problem for many new grads growing up the internet era. For some reason, many of them feel obligated to be working on side projects when they're not working. They basically end up with two jobs, a day job and tending to their side projects, and then they wonder where all of their time has gone. The solution is simple: Don't do side projects if you would prefer to spend your time on something else. It's all about making active choices in how you spend your time. Once you go down the spiral of assuming everything is an obligation in your life, your schedule starts to feel out of your control. Start being honest about the choices you're making and what you want to do with your time and it becomes much easier to take control again.

BeetleB 6y ago

> If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way. Reading your comment and others beneath you, I sense many of you have a weird idea of what a city is. What you describe is true only for a minority of cities. I live in a city with above median housing prices. I live a 10 minute drive from my work. My house is not expensive - in fact, the expensive neighborhoods are farther away. Initially you may not have much of a choice on where you work, but if you go through your whole career not having that choice, you probably need to work on your career a bit. For everyone I know, they decided to make that compromise (don't want to leave awesome city, etc). For them, not having enough time in the day definitely is a choice. I agree with the rest of your accounting, but will note that there are weekends. As for gym, I just figured out exercises I can do at home with minimal equipment. It's a lot more flexible (and takes less time) than going to a gym.

shard972 6y ago
In countries like Australia, cities like that are defacto the majority. Sydney/Melbourne are both easily 1hr+ communes unless your loaded or willing to live in a dump (I used to do 3 hour commutes from my parents place, total 6 hour a day travel). Cities like perth are much closer to achieving less than 1hr commute without paying expensive property prices but that is by definition the minority, even Brisbane isn't that great.
0xdde 6y ago
You might be the one with a weird idea of what a city is. I'd wager most people think of something like the top 20 metropolitan statistical areas by population when they hear the term. In the U.S, at least, those generally all have terrible traffic and subpar transit.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  You just made my case for me. The majority of people who live in cities in the US are not in the top 20 metropolitan areas, I think the majority will disagree with your idea of a city. Every city I've lived in was not in the top 20. And frankly, even looking at some of the top 20 areas, some of them have pretty decent traffic. I know people who live in Phoenix (ranked 10th) whose commute is definitely under half an hour one way. And they live in nice areas. Houston: Some of the major employers are in a crappy part of town. Very easy to find houses nearby, but few do so because they don't like the neighborhood. Still, the long commute is an active choice and not about affordability. Take Manhattan. I got a call from a well known company to work there. I said "No way. Expensive and long commutes." The recruiter explained: No - just live in New Jersey. If you get the right neighborhood, the commute to work by public transit will be 30-40 minutes. I checked - he was right. Those New Jersey neighborhoods were decent ones, and the houses were about the same price as mine. I haven't checked Chicago recently, but 10-15 years ago, you could easily find houses near enough the L-train such that your commute to downtown would be about 30 minutes.