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The gamification of Duolingo is something that has really worked for me (as an adult). It has all the parts of an addictive mobile game that keep you coming bac

The gamification of Duolingo is something that has really worked for me (as an adult). It has all the parts of an addictive mobile game that keep you coming back: a streak that notifies you if you're in danger of losing it (this is the one that really works for me), social rankings, fun graphics, in game currency. I have a 410 day Spanish streak as of this morning! I took French in middle/high school with the standard lecture/hw school structure and was a lot less successful than I've been with Duolingo. Duolingo alone probably isn't enough to really learn a language but combined with other resources it provides a great structure to keep you committed and provides a great foundation to build from.

hammock 6y ago
I believe his point is not that gamification doesn't work for learning, but rather that it has a nasty side effect of training your brain to be more susceptible to addiction/gamification everywhere, even where you don't want it.
- pjfin123 6y ago
  I understand that and definitely a valid point especially for kids. I'm just making the point that in some situations there can be real benefits of using gamification. Like most things balance is important.
barry-cotter 6y ago
Duolingo is great as a beginning to language study but that’s all there is to it. If you have a 410 day Spanish streak it’s time to start reading Spanish children’s books or watching telenovelas or Narcos, anything but continuing with Duolingo.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Duolingo takes you 10 minutes a day. If it's the only thing you're doing, I agree it's not sufficient, but I disagree with stopping doing it - it has mechanisms to reinforce what you learned.
  - sanedigital 6y ago
    But what you’ve learned isn’t all that valuable from a language perspective. It doesn’t matter how well is reinforcing lessons of those lessons weren’t very valuable in the first place.
- pjfin123 6y ago
  Yeah I agree (sorry I edited the original post to essentially say this while you wrote the comment). I also took a semester of Spanish in college and Duolingo let me (barely) place into the second level class. I've also been watching Spanish media (Telemundo, Casa de Papel, Pasion de Gavilanes) and just started a Spanish meetup group to practice speaking. What Duolingo has been best for is getting a baseline vocab and familiarity with the language. It also lets you stay fresh/keep making progress when you don't have time or mental effort to spend more than a few minutes a day.
NewOrderNow 6y ago
I have been on a streak for weeks, usually in the top 10 of that week's tournament, yet I am actually making no real progress in actually learning the language. Nothing is really going to beat rote memorization and full immersion I feel. This isn't as big of a problem for latin based languages (English native) however.
tasogare 6y ago
Perfect illustration of GP point: you played for 410 days, yet you only learned the content of what is probably only a few hours of focused learning. I’ve tested Duolinguo for languages I want to learn, for some I already know and a language BA/MA holder I can guarantee that Duolingo is total crap. This is just a feel good app. Just like another post was mentioning hiw note taking can do more harm than good because it feels like work, Duolingo is given the user the feeling of work and progression while very very little knowledge is gained. Let’s take Japanese as an example. Hiragana and katakana are each divided in 4 parts: a user can easily spend weeks on that and feel he’s making progress. University student on the other side learn that in a week... (for slow learners)
wenc 6y ago
As a language learner (working on my 8th right now), I dabble in Duolingo from time to time and agree that it provides contact time with the language, and any contact time helps reinforce memory. Language learning in general though, I have found, is not that amenable to gamification. Some learning methods may be more efficient than others, but even with the most efficient methods, real language learning is still inherently and unavoidably a slog. So if you come across a method that makes it "easy", chances are it's not actually working. It's too easy to trick oneself to think that one is making progress, and then find oneself unable to communicate when called upon to do so. In the polyglot (ie actual practitioners of extreme language learning) community, there are many super talented language learners but a common pattern among them is the use of surprising traditional learning methods. Most do not use Duolingo but instead elect to do things the hard way, by actually going through workbooks, talking to tutors on iTalki, making mistakes, exposing themselves to media, translating, etc. Space repetition tools are sometimes used. Pimsleur is good for speaking, but not reading/writing so it doesn't get used that much. There are clips of YouTubers where creators show you how to learned a language to a conversational level in 24 hours etc. but if you look more closely, the experiments are highly edited and the actual outcome is not that great. I've resigned myself to the fact that the way to actually to learn a language is to jump in and do it the hard way, rather than through easier shortcuts. Language learning is about creating new reflexes and creating new pathways int he brain and there's no easy way to do that (the brain itself resists) without discomfort. That said, tools like Duolingo do create fun and interest in a language -- and fun is needed to sustain oneself through the journey.
- pjfin123 6y ago
  Interesting, I think I largely agree. However, I think the polyglot community is probably not a great representation of what would work for most people. For a lot of people, myself included, I think the choice is realistically between lower commitment (and lower quality/speed of learning) options and nothing at all. At least for myself it would take a lot of motivation to consistently do workbooks for years, major props to the people who can though.
  - wenc 6y ago

hammock 6y ago

I believe his point is not that gamification doesn't work for learning, but rather that it has a nasty side effect of training your brain to be more susceptible to addiction/gamification everywhere, even where you don't want it.

pjfin123 6y ago
I understand that and definitely a valid point especially for kids. I'm just making the point that in some situations there can be real benefits of using gamification. Like most things balance is important.

barry-cotter 6y ago

Duolingo is great as a beginning to language study but that’s all there is to it. If you have a 410 day Spanish streak it’s time to start reading Spanish children’s books or watching telenovelas or Narcos, anything but continuing with Duolingo.

emteycz 6y ago
Duolingo takes you 10 minutes a day. If it's the only thing you're doing, I agree it's not sufficient, but I disagree with stopping doing it - it has mechanisms to reinforce what you learned.
- sanedigital 6y ago
  But what you’ve learned isn’t all that valuable from a language perspective. It doesn’t matter how well is reinforcing lessons of those lessons weren’t very valuable in the first place.
pjfin123 6y ago
Yeah I agree (sorry I edited the original post to essentially say this while you wrote the comment). I also took a semester of Spanish in college and Duolingo let me (barely) place into the second level class. I've also been watching Spanish media (Telemundo, Casa de Papel, Pasion de Gavilanes) and just started a Spanish meetup group to practice speaking. What Duolingo has been best for is getting a baseline vocab and familiarity with the language. It also lets you stay fresh/keep making progress when you don't have time or mental effort to spend more than a few minutes a day.

NewOrderNow 6y ago

I have been on a streak for weeks, usually in the top 10 of that week's tournament, yet I am actually making no real progress in actually learning the language. Nothing is really going to beat rote memorization and full immersion I feel. This isn't as big of a problem for latin based languages (English native) however.

tasogare 6y ago

Perfect illustration of GP point: you played for 410 days, yet you only learned the content of what is probably only a few hours of focused learning. I’ve tested Duolinguo for languages I want to learn, for some I already know and a language BA/MA holder I can guarantee that Duolingo is total crap. This is just a feel good app. Just like another post was mentioning hiw note taking can do more harm than good because it feels like work, Duolingo is given the user the feeling of work and progression while very very little knowledge is gained. Let’s take Japanese as an example. Hiragana and katakana are each divided in 4 parts: a user can easily spend weeks on that and feel he’s making progress. University student on the other side learn that in a week... (for slow learners)

wenc 6y ago

As a language learner (working on my 8th right now), I dabble in Duolingo from time to time and agree that it provides contact time with the language, and any contact time helps reinforce memory. Language learning in general though, I have found, is not that amenable to gamification. Some learning methods may be more efficient than others, but even with the most efficient methods, real language learning is still inherently and unavoidably a slog. So if you come across a method that makes it "easy", chances are it's not actually working. It's too easy to trick oneself to think that one is making progress, and then find oneself unable to communicate when called upon to do so. In the polyglot (ie actual practitioners of extreme language learning) community, there are many super talented language learners but a common pattern among them is the use of surprising traditional learning methods. Most do not use Duolingo but instead elect to do things the hard way, by actually going through workbooks, talking to tutors on iTalki, making mistakes, exposing themselves to media, translating, etc. Space repetition tools are sometimes used. Pimsleur is good for speaking, but not reading/writing so it doesn't get used that much. There are clips of YouTubers where creators show you how to learned a language to a conversational level in 24 hours etc. but if you look more closely, the experiments are highly edited and the actual outcome is not that great. I've resigned myself to the fact that the way to actually to learn a language is to jump in and do it the hard way, rather than through easier shortcuts. Language learning is about creating new reflexes and creating new pathways int he brain and there's no easy way to do that (the brain itself resists) without discomfort. That said, tools like Duolingo do create fun and interest in a language -- and fun is needed to sustain oneself through the journey.

pjfin123 6y ago
Interesting, I think I largely agree. However, I think the polyglot community is probably not a great representation of what would work for most people. For a lot of people, myself included, I think the choice is realistically between lower commitment (and lower quality/speed of learning) options and nothing at all. At least for myself it would take a lot of motivation to consistently do workbooks for years, major props to the people who can though.
- wenc 6y ago