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> There are plenty of examples of things that are horrible to experience and outside of the person's control and for them this kind of advice is absurd Let's s

> There are plenty of examples of things that are horrible to experience and outside of the person's control and for them this kind of advice is absurd Let's say e.g. someone's father gets dementia, and they've got to take care of them. They talk about how painful it is, and you feel like you've been thrown off of a cliff. Seeing that they're in a lot of pain, I try to help by saying "Look, you just need to focus on the things that you can control. Using metaphors like that is disempowering." We both agree that this would be a terrible way to help. Watching someone you love die of dementia is a horrible experience. If someone is expressing dismay at the prospect of watching a loved one uncontrollably disintegrate, the only good responses are in the vein of "wow, that sounds incredibly painful. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help." Nevertheless! The person whose father is dying has a choice about where they put their attention. Do they spend time thinking about how unfair it is for him to work his whole life and lose his mind the moment he's poised to retire? How unfair it is that they have to take care of this person, who never took care of them when they were younger? Or instead, do they focus on the things that they can influence? I'm not saying it's easy to do - personally I find it incredibly difficult. But making the effort to calmly accept things as they are without labeling things as catastrophes has been and continues to be incredibly freeing.

guerrilla 6y ago
> The person whose father is dying has a choice about where they put their attention You've made the same mistake again. The comics are about situations where the people have no such choices to make. To make your example fit, the person would have to be having compulsive thoughts about the unfairness of the situation or something. This is a real possibility. People with certain mental illnesses do not have choices over where they put their attention. Telling them to put it anywhere specific is a misunderstanding of the situation and unhelpful.
- roflc0ptic 6y ago
  But there's basically no situation a person can be in while remaining intact that they can't attempt to direct their attention. Falling off a cliff? The choice is available. About to get killed by a semi truck? Choice. Etc etc. Perhaps where our models differ is that I think most suffering is second order. The first order bad thing happens, and it hurts. Then we think about it, and think about it in unhelpful ways, and continue to hurt ourselves further.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    > But there's basically no situation a person can be in while remaining intact that they can't attempt to direct their attention. Except many mental illnesses, the example I'm pointing out for the third time now. Moreover, you're advice is utterly useless to the person suffering in these situations. Again, we need yet another panel with someone being beaten to death with a pipe and you standing there saying "just direct your attention to..." (scream of "AHHHHHH"! overlaps the end of your thought bubble)

guerrilla 6y ago

> The person whose father is dying has a choice about where they put their attention You've made the same mistake again. The comics are about situations where the people have no such choices to make. To make your example fit, the person would have to be having compulsive thoughts about the unfairness of the situation or something. This is a real possibility. People with certain mental illnesses do not have choices over where they put their attention. Telling them to put it anywhere specific is a misunderstanding of the situation and unhelpful.

roflc0ptic 6y ago
But there's basically no situation a person can be in while remaining intact that they can't attempt to direct their attention. Falling off a cliff? The choice is available. About to get killed by a semi truck? Choice. Etc etc. Perhaps where our models differ is that I think most suffering is second order. The first order bad thing happens, and it hurts. Then we think about it, and think about it in unhelpful ways, and continue to hurt ourselves further.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  > But there's basically no situation a person can be in while remaining intact that they can't attempt to direct their attention. Except many mental illnesses, the example I'm pointing out for the third time now. Moreover, you're advice is utterly useless to the person suffering in these situations. Again, we need yet another panel with someone being beaten to death with a pipe and you standing there saying "just direct your attention to..." (scream of "AHHHHHH"! overlaps the end of your thought bubble)