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One important thing that doesn't appear to be noted in the article is another important reason that these unpleasant traits persist (in men) - they are often at

One important thing that doesn't appear to be noted in the article is another important reason that these unpleasant traits persist (in men) - they are often attractive to women (perhaps because they bring social success?). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913012245 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01918...

haltingproblem 6y ago
In other words these are Evolutionarily advantageous and women being the sex which selects during mating have honed in on it and chosen men who have these traits. Studying Evolutionary psychology for the first time allowed me to reconcile women's behavior (revealed preferences) vs. their stated preferences. Women do truly prefer sensitive, considerate, balanced and intelligent men but their evolutionary sense overrides in picking those with dark traits and other advantageous traits. Again, I am sure same is true for men and I just have not studied it. The present social debate around masculinity is weird because it posits this dichotomy between sex behaviors while being blissfully ignorant that is the two sexes who have selected this in each other over the past millions of years. Once folks realize this we can all calm down and maybe go back to thoughtfully working on overriding them. Diana Fleischman's Evo Psych intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fH9wouYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fH9wouYI
klyrs 6y ago
I've met 3 year-old boys and girls who display these traits. Why are you focused on what women find attractive? Under that line of reasoning, if men didn't find these traits attractive, (a) women wouldn't display these traits, and/or (b) these traits wouldn't be common in male-dominated C-levels of organizations around the world. On an evolutionary timescale, I hardly think it's fair to characterize this as a result of women's sexual preferences, as pregnancy/marriage following rape (a consequence of entitlement, callousness, sadism, shortcutting, etc) was bracingly common until quite recently (not that it isn't still happening) and abortion of such offspring is still nowhere near 100%. As a thought experiment, I propose a dark corollary to Popper's paradox: should we eradicate people who display these traits? Well, that's a catch-22; the only people liable to agree with that are the very ones bound for the chopping block.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  I've met 3 year-old boys and girls who display these traits. Why are you focused on what women find attractive? I'm not "focused" on what women find attractive; if you have a link to a study that backs up your anecdote that attraction to dark triad attributes is evenly distributed between the sexes, please post it.

haltingproblem 6y ago

In other words these are Evolutionarily advantageous and women being the sex which selects during mating have honed in on it and chosen men who have these traits. Studying Evolutionary psychology for the first time allowed me to reconcile women's behavior (revealed preferences) vs. their stated preferences. Women do truly prefer sensitive, considerate, balanced and intelligent men but their evolutionary sense overrides in picking those with dark traits and other advantageous traits. Again, I am sure same is true for men and I just have not studied it. The present social debate around masculinity is weird because it posits this dichotomy between sex behaviors while being blissfully ignorant that is the two sexes who have selected this in each other over the past millions of years. Once folks realize this we can all calm down and maybe go back to thoughtfully working on overriding them. Diana Fleischman's Evo Psych intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fH9wouYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fH9wouYI

klyrs 6y ago

I've met 3 year-old boys and girls who display these traits. Why are you focused on what women find attractive? Under that line of reasoning, if men didn't find these traits attractive, (a) women wouldn't display these traits, and/or (b) these traits wouldn't be common in male-dominated C-levels of organizations around the world. On an evolutionary timescale, I hardly think it's fair to characterize this as a result of women's sexual preferences, as pregnancy/marriage following rape (a consequence of entitlement, callousness, sadism, shortcutting, etc) was bracingly common until quite recently (not that it isn't still happening) and abortion of such offspring is still nowhere near 100%. As a thought experiment, I propose a dark corollary to Popper's paradox: should we eradicate people who display these traits? Well, that's a catch-22; the only people liable to agree with that are the very ones bound for the chopping block.

mellosouls 6y ago
I've met 3 year-old boys and girls who display these traits. Why are you focused on what women find attractive? I'm not "focused" on what women find attractive; if you have a link to a study that backs up your anecdote that attraction to dark triad attributes is evenly distributed between the sexes, please post it.