5 ms·

"Let's get up earlier anyway" won't work, because society operates as a whole. You can already see the problems just with families. As a parent, I can't change

by ridaj 6y ago

"Let's get up earlier anyway" won't work, because society operates as a whole. You can already see the problems just with families. As a parent, I can't change my operating schedule until the school that my kids go to changes its schedule as well, and my school can't change its own schedule until the majority of the parents are also able to cope with the new one. Every institution providing essential services to the rest of the population introduces coordination friction to a widespread schedule change. Moving clocks is a much more effective way to realize a nationwide change. It solves the coordination problem, making sure that the whole society is doing the change in lockstep. In a way, getting good at coordinated clock changes is maybe the one benefit we've gotten out of decades of DST, so we might as well take advantage of it one last time... Also, you may over-estimate the "natural-ness" of standard time. In most places, standard time is already way off of solar time, and as far as I can tell that's not really bothering anyone.

mapgrep 6y ago
We have doctors telling us this mode of living is unhealthy. As parents, is our response going to be to try to veto that because it is a headache? I can handle getting sleepy an hour earlier. My kids are asleep by 9. Is it so much better for me to stay up until 11 watching tv or reading recreationally than sleep at 10? This really isn’t much to do with school schedules, school is out hours before bedtime. Yes, it can be tight getting kids to bed after work/daycare but I’ve never adjusted that target bedtime based on DST. If I did I’d then have to get them in bed earlier when it ends. As parents why can’t we just do in summer what we usually do in winter? Somehow we handle two changes to daylight a year but we cannot handle zero? I don’t buy it.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  This makes me wonder if a school district can choose to swap its hours during DST accordingly and back without DST and letting parents not miss out on sleep. Of course if their jobs are still on DST then you will have those problems but if parents say their schools opening up slightly different it might force employers hands especially when chances are your bossman also has kids.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    So you want the entire community to agree to change hours to cancel the effect of DST instead of just agreeing to not do DST? That seems way harder!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
anoncake 6y ago
> my school can't change its own schedule until the majority of the parents are also able to cope with the new one. Sure it can. Announce the change in advance and tell people they better be able to switch by then. Being able to coordinate changes like that is part of the point of having a state.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  That's not just a simple announcement, though. It will require additional budget to pay for the before-school supervision required for students whose parents don't have the luxury of telling their employer that their hours must change.
  - salawat 6y ago
    Not if it comes paired with legislation forcing employers to get on board on penalty of punitive damages being assessed against them. Been done before, can be done again. The trick is coordinating from the bottom, then up. The Dog wags the tail. Not the other way around.
    - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
      Why is everyone suggesting things that are so much harder than just changing the clock? Now you literally want to get lawyers and judges involved in order to enforce your legislation, instead of just changing the clock. These ideas are insane.
      - mitchdoogle 6y ago
        The situation we're in is kind of insane. Where were the people like you when DST was passed into law?
      - anoncake 6y ago
        If doing things properly instead of leaving cludges in place forever is insane, we need a lot more insane ideas. Seriously, laws aren't scary.
cynoclast 6y ago
A solution: Announce, 10 years in advance, we're all going to switch on 2030-08-29 Everyone is on the same page, and has time to prepare.
collyw 6y ago
> Also, you may over-estimate the "natural-ness" of standard time. In most places, standard time is already way off of solar time, and as far as I can tell that's not really bothering anyone. Yes, Greenwich meantime goes through Spain, but we are an hour ahead of the UK's timezone. I remember being in Chile years ago, travelling pretty much North to Peru, but there was a two hour time difference. They are in different timezones by one hour, and I think Chile had DST but Peru didn't.

by ridaj 6y ago

mapgrep 6y ago

We have doctors telling us this mode of living is unhealthy. As parents, is our response going to be to try to veto that because it is a headache? I can handle getting sleepy an hour earlier. My kids are asleep by 9. Is it so much better for me to stay up until 11 watching tv or reading recreationally than sleep at 10? This really isn’t much to do with school schedules, school is out hours before bedtime. Yes, it can be tight getting kids to bed after work/daycare but I’ve never adjusted that target bedtime based on DST. If I did I’d then have to get them in bed earlier when it ends. As parents why can’t we just do in summer what we usually do in winter? Somehow we handle two changes to daylight a year but we cannot handle zero? I don’t buy it.

giancarlostoro 6y ago
This makes me wonder if a school district can choose to swap its hours during DST accordingly and back without DST and letting parents not miss out on sleep. Of course if their jobs are still on DST then you will have those problems but if parents say their schools opening up slightly different it might force employers hands especially when chances are your bossman also has kids.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  So you want the entire community to agree to change hours to cancel the effect of DST instead of just agreeing to not do DST? That seems way harder!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

anoncake 6y ago

> my school can't change its own schedule until the majority of the parents are also able to cope with the new one. Sure it can. Announce the change in advance and tell people they better be able to switch by then. Being able to coordinate changes like that is part of the point of having a state.

rootusrootus 6y ago
That's not just a simple announcement, though. It will require additional budget to pay for the before-school supervision required for students whose parents don't have the luxury of telling their employer that their hours must change.
- salawat 6y ago
  Not if it comes paired with legislation forcing employers to get on board on penalty of punitive damages being assessed against them. Been done before, can be done again. The trick is coordinating from the bottom, then up. The Dog wags the tail. Not the other way around.
  - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
    Why is everyone suggesting things that are so much harder than just changing the clock? Now you literally want to get lawyers and judges involved in order to enforce your legislation, instead of just changing the clock. These ideas are insane.
    - mitchdoogle 6y ago
      The situation we're in is kind of insane. Where were the people like you when DST was passed into law?
    - anoncake 6y ago
      If doing things properly instead of leaving cludges in place forever is insane, we need a lot more insane ideas. Seriously, laws aren't scary.

cynoclast 6y ago

A solution: Announce, 10 years in advance, we're all going to switch on 2030-08-29 Everyone is on the same page, and has time to prepare.

collyw 6y ago

> Also, you may over-estimate the "natural-ness" of standard time. In most places, standard time is already way off of solar time, and as far as I can tell that's not really bothering anyone. Yes, Greenwich meantime goes through Spain, but we are an hour ahead of the UK's timezone. I remember being in Chile years ago, travelling pretty much North to Peru, but there was a two hour time difference. They are in different timezones by one hour, and I think Chile had DST but Peru didn't.