5 ms·

The media spin going on regarding Kenosha is crazy. If I hadn't seen the videos of what happened, I would have assumed it was a white supremacist shooting peace

by dx87 6y ago

The media spin going on regarding Kenosha is crazy. If I hadn't seen the videos of what happened, I would have assumed it was a white supremacist shooting peaceful protesters, not someone who was being attacked and only shot when he couldn't get away.

mgerdts 6y ago
The first person was killed because he threw a plastic bag. "The complaint claims that cell phone video showed Rosenbaum, who appeared to be unarmed, trailing behind Rittenhouse before throwing a plastic bag at him. As the pair approached a car, a loud bang is heard, followed by an unidentified male yelling an obscenity. When Rosenbaum gets close to Rittenhouse, another four bangs are heard." The widely circulated video is of people trying to disarm.him after he killed the first person. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-homicide-charges-jacob-blake-protests/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooti...
- benmmurphy 6y ago
  This is the prosecutors claim. This is the same prosecutor that decided to push for murder 1 which is a ridiculous over charge. Unless the prosecutor has written evidence from Kyle claiming he went to the protest either directly to kill people or aggro people into attacking him so he could kill them the charge won't stand. For balance here is Kyle's lawyers statement on the incident where he claims one of his pursuers lunged at him to try and take his rifle and that was the reason for the first shooting: https://wkow.com/2020/08/28/attorneys-say-accused-kenosha-shooter-acted-in-self-defense/ https://wkow.com/2020/08/28/attorneys-say-accused-kenosha-sh... > As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle. He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  Stabilized video (gif) of the first shooting: https://i.maga.host/rc9wxWa.gif https://i.maga.host/rc9wxWa.gif Note that this is after the bag was thrown - the person who threw it continued to chase the shooter and was within contact distance. Apologies for the domain. This is a heavily politicized event, and YouTube seems to be taking down the videos.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  A plastic bag was thrown, but I can't see where it is claimed this is the reason he was killed. According to lawyer statement[0] he turned after hearing a gunshot behind him, and then shot as the first person lunged at him. I see no evidence the mob of people chasing him were trying to "disarm" him, in fact the third person shot was pretty clearly trying to shoot him. [0]: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawyers-release-statement/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawy...
mc32 6y ago
I think it was MSNBC and a panel was discussing Kenosha and one of them matter-of-factly called the person in question "white supremacist" without any supporting evidence. There is no journalism --it's just narrative. Obviously there is a lot we don't know and the case may reveal more facts we are unaware of.
fncypants 6y ago
This is not how to look at this if you want to find a way to solve our society’s ills. The gunman was the instigator because he travelled to riots and not to protect anyone he knows or his own property. He brought an assault rifle and walked the streets. Why would anyone not looking for trouble do that? That’s vigilantism. The police are there to deal with it. Not untrained teenagers. Remember, the second amendment is because we want a “well regulated” militia not randos with guns. When you do what this person did, you make it inevitable that gun violence will be the result. That’s why self defense laws do not protect you if you unnecessarily created the situation that led to you having to defend yourself. The problem with police violence is an extension of this. Police training is directed at control and overwhelming force. Even when there is an alternative path to de-escalate. When you are being attacked, even if you just committed a crime and the attacker is a police officer, your instinct is to fight back. The result is continued escalation until someone is dead.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  But are there clear rules of what kind of "help" you can and cannot provide? None of the individuals harmed while attacking the gunman needed to intervene either - and I'm sceptical they all had first-hand knowledge of the 1st shooting versus hearing the allegations of the crowd/mob. Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Yu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Yu - same ethic of "if it wasn't his property, he must have been looking for trouble"; If that's the case every out-of-town protest/rioter is also an instigator. Truth is, we don't know what preceded Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse, and until we do, we don't know who threw the first punch. > The police are there to deal with it last I heard the US police have no duty to protect. Until this is changed, people will be in no hurry to surrender the right to bear arms.
  - fncypants 6y ago
    > Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Y https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Y Not in any way. That is a debate over Good Samaritans helping vs not getting involved. This is about vigilantes showing up with assault rifles when the police are already there.

by dx87 6y ago

mgerdts 6y ago

The first person was killed because he threw a plastic bag. "The complaint claims that cell phone video showed Rosenbaum, who appeared to be unarmed, trailing behind Rittenhouse before throwing a plastic bag at him. As the pair approached a car, a loud bang is heard, followed by an unidentified male yelling an obscenity. When Rosenbaum gets close to Rittenhouse, another four bangs are heard." The widely circulated video is of people trying to disarm.him after he killed the first person. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-homicide-charges-jacob-blake-protests/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooti...

benmmurphy 6y ago
This is the prosecutors claim. This is the same prosecutor that decided to push for murder 1 which is a ridiculous over charge. Unless the prosecutor has written evidence from Kyle claiming he went to the protest either directly to kill people or aggro people into attacking him so he could kill them the charge won't stand. For balance here is Kyle's lawyers statement on the incident where he claims one of his pursuers lunged at him to try and take his rifle and that was the reason for the first shooting: https://wkow.com/2020/08/28/attorneys-say-accused-kenosha-shooter-acted-in-self-defense/ https://wkow.com/2020/08/28/attorneys-say-accused-kenosha-sh... > As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle. He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.
Ancapistani 6y ago
Stabilized video (gif) of the first shooting: https://i.maga.host/rc9wxWa.gif https://i.maga.host/rc9wxWa.gif Note that this is after the bag was thrown - the person who threw it continued to chase the shooter and was within contact distance. Apologies for the domain. This is a heavily politicized event, and YouTube seems to be taking down the videos.
Chris2048 6y ago
A plastic bag was thrown, but I can't see where it is claimed this is the reason he was killed. According to lawyer statement[0] he turned after hearing a gunshot behind him, and then shot as the first person lunged at him. I see no evidence the mob of people chasing him were trying to "disarm" him, in fact the third person shot was pretty clearly trying to shoot him. [0]: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawyers-release-statement/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawy...

mc32 6y ago

I think it was MSNBC and a panel was discussing Kenosha and one of them matter-of-factly called the person in question "white supremacist" without any supporting evidence. There is no journalism --it's just narrative. Obviously there is a lot we don't know and the case may reveal more facts we are unaware of.

fncypants 6y ago

This is not how to look at this if you want to find a way to solve our society’s ills. The gunman was the instigator because he travelled to riots and not to protect anyone he knows or his own property. He brought an assault rifle and walked the streets. Why would anyone not looking for trouble do that? That’s vigilantism. The police are there to deal with it. Not untrained teenagers. Remember, the second amendment is because we want a “well regulated” militia not randos with guns. When you do what this person did, you make it inevitable that gun violence will be the result. That’s why self defense laws do not protect you if you unnecessarily created the situation that led to you having to defend yourself. The problem with police violence is an extension of this. Police training is directed at control and overwhelming force. Even when there is an alternative path to de-escalate. When you are being attacked, even if you just committed a crime and the attacker is a police officer, your instinct is to fight back. The result is continued escalation until someone is dead.

Chris2048 6y ago
But are there clear rules of what kind of "help" you can and cannot provide? None of the individuals harmed while attacking the gunman needed to intervene either - and I'm sceptical they all had first-hand knowledge of the 1st shooting versus hearing the allegations of the crowd/mob. Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Yu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Yu - same ethic of "if it wasn't his property, he must have been looking for trouble"; If that's the case every out-of-town protest/rioter is also an instigator. Truth is, we don't know what preceded Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse, and until we do, we don't know who threw the first punch. > The police are there to deal with it last I heard the US police have no duty to protect. Until this is changed, people will be in no hurry to surrender the right to bear arms.
- fncypants 6y ago
  > Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Y https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Shoulan_v._Peng_Y Not in any way. That is a debate over Good Samaritans helping vs not getting involved. This is about vigilantes showing up with assault rifles when the police are already there.