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This sounds interesting, but not convinced since we could say that fairness mainly exists in the circumstances and rarely in the courts. At some point there is

by vr46 6y ago

This sounds interesting, but not convinced since we could say that fairness mainly exists in the circumstances and rarely in the courts. At some point there is an upper limit to the relevant information available for any decision. We could test this, I mean, suppose the invoices or even the details at the checkout broke down the total into developer’s fee, apple’s fee, government tax, and so everyone could see that, would that be sufficient to fix the problem? I suspect not, because Epic, in this story, are seeking to pay Apple less, and give themselves more - that’s really their bottom line. Are they really going to all this trouble on my behalf?

thu2111 6y ago
Well, hotel bills do routinely break out not just taxes but individual taxes. And it does matter. I just got back from a hotel where I was rather irritated to find that local taxes for just a 6 day stay added up to the cost of a very nice restaurant meal for two. That's worth knowing next time a politician talks about tax. The hotel could treat such taxes as overheads and incorporate it into the price, but that's not really useful because they can't change it, only the customer can. Most business overheads aren't like that. If only a customer can affect a charge it makes sense to break it out and highlight it.
- chucksmash 6y ago
  Interesting take. What if the shoe were on the other foot? What company would hire me if I negotiated a salary and then after we shook hands and everybody had the warm and fuzzies, I said, "Well now, you'll understand this is just the rate I charge, so it is exclusive of federal and state income tax. These are additional fees that I am responsible, by law, for collecting from you on behalf of the government. I've broken the numbers down this way in the interest of full transparency."
  - rolisz 6y ago
    That's pretty much how it happens in Romania. All (or almost) salaries are negotiated post tax (so what gets payed out to me) and the employer is responsible for paying the appropriate taxes to the government.
    - throwaway5792 6y ago
      What if you have other income from investments?
      - rescbr 6y ago
        I assume it’s done the same way as any other withheld tax. The only difference is negotiating salary net of tax rather than ex-tax.
      - rolisz 6y ago
        In that case you have to go to the tax office and file out some documents and then you pay the taxes for the investments separately. There is a single income tax rate, 10%, so it doesn't matter how much you earn. If your investments make more than the annual minimum wage, you also have to pay the health insurance tax and "social security" tax.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- LexGray 6y ago
  Did the hotel also break out their net profit after expenses, including how much had been paid to affiliates for booking?
- elif 6y ago
  Knowing that a city has a high hotel tax has driven me immediately to Airbnb in the past. Knowing the amount that I am overpaying for a service is a valuable capitalist function.
- bobdole12345 6y ago
  Hotel bills are broken out like that because the tax system allows many write-offs and reimbursements of many of those fees. They're broken down because they often go to different parts of the local, state and federal governments, and it's important that those seeking write off or reimbursement know who they need to claim those against. Interestingly, many large companies use services for this kind of thing, much like Apples walled garden, where their employees can spend without worrying about tracking all these details, and the service takes care of all the (significant) legal wrangling and deal negotiation to make this simple. That's essentially what Apple does for their money: makes it possible for users to buy things across a host of jurisdictions from an ecosystem of vendors, without risking their device security or payment security. There is a significant amount of legal and infrastructural wrangling involved, most of which the end customer, and many of the vendors don't fully understand. But yeah, let us focus on the least important part: price.

by vr46 6y ago

thu2111 6y ago

Well, hotel bills do routinely break out not just taxes but individual taxes. And it does matter. I just got back from a hotel where I was rather irritated to find that local taxes for just a 6 day stay added up to the cost of a very nice restaurant meal for two. That's worth knowing next time a politician talks about tax. The hotel could treat such taxes as overheads and incorporate it into the price, but that's not really useful because they can't change it, only the customer can. Most business overheads aren't like that. If only a customer can affect a charge it makes sense to break it out and highlight it.

chucksmash 6y ago
Interesting take. What if the shoe were on the other foot? What company would hire me if I negotiated a salary and then after we shook hands and everybody had the warm and fuzzies, I said, "Well now, you'll understand this is just the rate I charge, so it is exclusive of federal and state income tax. These are additional fees that I am responsible, by law, for collecting from you on behalf of the government. I've broken the numbers down this way in the interest of full transparency."
- rolisz 6y ago
  That's pretty much how it happens in Romania. All (or almost) salaries are negotiated post tax (so what gets payed out to me) and the employer is responsible for paying the appropriate taxes to the government.
  - throwaway5792 6y ago
    What if you have other income from investments?
    - rescbr 6y ago
      I assume it’s done the same way as any other withheld tax. The only difference is negotiating salary net of tax rather than ex-tax.
    - rolisz 6y ago
      In that case you have to go to the tax office and file out some documents and then you pay the taxes for the investments separately. There is a single income tax rate, 10%, so it doesn't matter how much you earn. If your investments make more than the annual minimum wage, you also have to pay the health insurance tax and "social security" tax.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
LexGray 6y ago
Did the hotel also break out their net profit after expenses, including how much had been paid to affiliates for booking?
elif 6y ago
Knowing that a city has a high hotel tax has driven me immediately to Airbnb in the past. Knowing the amount that I am overpaying for a service is a valuable capitalist function.
bobdole12345 6y ago
Hotel bills are broken out like that because the tax system allows many write-offs and reimbursements of many of those fees. They're broken down because they often go to different parts of the local, state and federal governments, and it's important that those seeking write off or reimbursement know who they need to claim those against. Interestingly, many large companies use services for this kind of thing, much like Apples walled garden, where their employees can spend without worrying about tracking all these details, and the service takes care of all the (significant) legal wrangling and deal negotiation to make this simple. That's essentially what Apple does for their money: makes it possible for users to buy things across a host of jurisdictions from an ecosystem of vendors, without risking their device security or payment security. There is a significant amount of legal and infrastructural wrangling involved, most of which the end customer, and many of the vendors don't fully understand. But yeah, let us focus on the least important part: price.