3 ms·

Then invent a new credential system and you will be plenty wealthy. i have heard people murmuring about one.

by jdavid 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago
New credential systems are created all the time. One we hear people talk about nowadays on HN is a GitHub repository. Another one is acceptance into YC. All a credential is is something you've done in the past which implies your ability to do something in the future. Graduating with a degree in Econ from Harvard implies that you might be a good consultant for McKinsey. Founding Facebook implies you might be a good founder for a future effort. Having a great GitHub project implies you might be a good programmer for some simliar tasks.
- patio11 16y ago
  YC is a better example of a credential than a Github account. The function of credentials is to outsource decision making about quality: you have to actually read code to extract signal about a candidate from Github, a task which is expensive and beyond the capabilities of most investors and people with hiring authority. "YC alum", by comparison, tells you a lot about somebody in a sentence and doesn't require any work to understand - pg et al already did the vetting for you. There probably exists a spectrum of opinions on whether the credential is useful because of the vetting or the experience of the actual program. Candidly, I think that YC probably has a value add in attendance. Higher education? Not generally, no. I have a $140,000 degree (two, technically) which basically certifies that at 18 years old I was smart enough to get into my university and then, for the next four years, I did not die or fail to sign my loan docs. I know I learned some things of value in those four years, but I could just as easily have written myself a course of study with zero commercial potential, and my degree would say the same thing in a language 99.998% of Americans can't even read anyway. (East Asian Studies degree written in... Latin?!
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    There probably exists a spectrum of opinions on whether the credential is useful because of the vetting or the experience of the actual program. Candidly, I think that YC probably has a value add in attendance. Higher education? Not generally, no. The problem with higher ed is that if there is value add they make it impossible to know. Try to get outgoing metrics, besides grad rates, of outgoing undergrads and its near impossible. Professional schools do a better job of this.
    - robrenaud 16y ago
      Facebook and LinkedIn definitely have good data about college education and employment outcomes. I really wish they would just compete head on with USNews for college rankings. For example, I'd love to see income distributions by university/major. The universities themselves cannot be trusted to provide it in any accurate fashion[1], but mining it from a large sample of graduates would be much better and less biased. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&#...
  - jonbischke 16y ago
    I don't disagree but it's tough to scale YC. Same with Thiel fellowship. However, it isn't unreasonable to see a situation in which follower counts on sites like Github, Dribbble, Quora, etc. do become scalable ways of signaling. They aren't perfect indicators of ability or knowledge but then again, neither are college degrees (as anyone who has ever hired a dud college grad can attest to). YC, TechStars, Thiel, etc. are awesome signals for those who achieve them just as Harvard, Stanford and MIT are but I think the real juice is in the alternatives for those who don't fall into the top 1% of 1% who simply wish to prove their knowledge and abilities without having to drop six figures in the process.
    - apl 16y ago
      > However, it isn't unreasonable to see a situation in > which follower counts on sites like Github, Dribbble, > Quora, etc. do become scalable ways of signaling. They > aren't perfect indicators of ability or knowledge but > then again, neither are college degrees "Karma"-based mechanisms favor a very specific personality profile. One that doesn't necessarily correlate with aptitude. Just have a look at the SO superstars -- none of them are auto-hires for all situations. You'd need to evaluate them individually and carefully. Presumably to a degree that makes their community rating superfluous.
- DarkShikari 16y ago
  I've talked to a whole lot of people who are dealing with the problem of college -- for CS, the solution is generally obvious to us: open source work is not merely useful on a resume, but so valuable that past a point nobody even asks you about college. The problem seems to be that "a Github account" only exists for software development. For almost every other field that college covers, there's no equivalent. And the vast majority of college students aren't CS majors.
  - gaius 16y ago
    but so valuable that past a point That point is pretty high tho'. The thing is, that people who don't hire people usually don't understand, is that programming experience that organizations are interested in is only experience of programming to external requirements under external constraints, because that is what working programmers do, e.g. "write a program to do X on system Y by time Z", where none of those things are what you would have chosen yourself. Which is why it's a really bad idea to put on your CV that you've had 10 years experience when you're 21, the guy interviewing you has 10 years actual experience and he'll not be impressed.
- cma 16y ago
  >Pre-internet regional schools were often held in near equal esteem as Harvard/Yale. As information became more fluid (USNWR and the internet) the ranking of credentials became easier to obtain. This won't change. If regional schools received such a blow, why did their tuitions radically increase right in line with the Ivies' increases? Also in response to, "the reason why it's a bubble is also what keeps it afloat;" there is no quantification there--what would the tuition numbers have to be before this statement didn't apply? Will it key applying no matter what, even if there was an increase that put tuitions, say, beyond the lifetime earning capacity of the average college graduate?
jonbischke 16y ago
I don't think it's going to be one system but rather many systems. I think there are a host of online communities that have arisen in the last few years that are actually doing this. A good example is Stack Overflow/Careers 2.0. The fact that companies are hiring people on the basis of their Stack Overflow reputation graph should strike fear into the hearts of college administrators everywhere (but likely won't of course). The change won't happen overnight but we've come a long way in just the last few years in terms of mechanisms that could ultimately rival the university when it comes to signaling and I think this shift is only getting started.
- SergeyHack 16y ago
  Even the founders of SO acknowledged that their (up-to-date) reputation does not reflect "smartness" :) So this is just another example of corruption as I see it. But I agree with you that future online community reputations can improve the situation.

Then invent a new credential system and you will be plenty wealthy. i have heard people murmuring about one.

by jdavid 16y ago

Then invent a new credential system and you will be plenty wealthy. i have heard people murmuring about one.

New credential systems are created all the time. One we hear people talk about nowadays on HN is a GitHub repository. Another one is acceptance into YC. All a credential is is something you've done in the past which implies your ability to do something in the future. Graduating with a degree in Econ from Harvard implies that you might be a good consultant for McKinsey. Founding Facebook implies you might be a good founder for a future effort. Having a great GitHub project implies you might be a good programmer for some simliar tasks.

patio11 16y ago
YC is a better example of a credential than a Github account. The function of credentials is to outsource decision making about quality: you have to actually read code to extract signal about a candidate from Github, a task which is expensive and beyond the capabilities of most investors and people with hiring authority. "YC alum", by comparison, tells you a lot about somebody in a sentence and doesn't require any work to understand - pg et al already did the vetting for you. There probably exists a spectrum of opinions on whether the credential is useful because of the vetting or the experience of the actual program. Candidly, I think that YC probably has a value add in attendance. Higher education? Not generally, no. I have a $140,000 degree (two, technically) which basically certifies that at 18 years old I was smart enough to get into my university and then, for the next four years, I did not die or fail to sign my loan docs. I know I learned some things of value in those four years, but I could just as easily have written myself a course of study with zero commercial potential, and my degree would say the same thing in a language 99.998% of Americans can't even read anyway. (East Asian Studies degree written in... Latin?!
- kenjackson 16y ago
  There probably exists a spectrum of opinions on whether the credential is useful because of the vetting or the experience of the actual program. Candidly, I think that YC probably has a value add in attendance. Higher education? Not generally, no. The problem with higher ed is that if there is value add they make it impossible to know. Try to get outgoing metrics, besides grad rates, of outgoing undergrads and its near impossible. Professional schools do a better job of this.
  - robrenaud 16y ago
    Facebook and LinkedIn definitely have good data about college education and employment outcomes. I really wish they would just compete head on with USNews for college rankings. For example, I'd love to see income distributions by university/major. The universities themselves cannot be trusted to provide it in any accurate fashion[1], but mining it from a large sample of graduates would be much better and less biased. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&#...
- jonbischke 16y ago
  I don't disagree but it's tough to scale YC. Same with Thiel fellowship. However, it isn't unreasonable to see a situation in which follower counts on sites like Github, Dribbble, Quora, etc. do become scalable ways of signaling. They aren't perfect indicators of ability or knowledge but then again, neither are college degrees (as anyone who has ever hired a dud college grad can attest to). YC, TechStars, Thiel, etc. are awesome signals for those who achieve them just as Harvard, Stanford and MIT are but I think the real juice is in the alternatives for those who don't fall into the top 1% of 1% who simply wish to prove their knowledge and abilities without having to drop six figures in the process.
  - apl 16y ago
    > However, it isn't unreasonable to see a situation in > which follower counts on sites like Github, Dribbble, > Quora, etc. do become scalable ways of signaling. They > aren't perfect indicators of ability or knowledge but > then again, neither are college degrees "Karma"-based mechanisms favor a very specific personality profile. One that doesn't necessarily correlate with aptitude. Just have a look at the SO superstars -- none of them are auto-hires for all situations. You'd need to evaluate them individually and carefully. Presumably to a degree that makes their community rating superfluous.
DarkShikari 16y ago
I've talked to a whole lot of people who are dealing with the problem of college -- for CS, the solution is generally obvious to us: open source work is not merely useful on a resume, but so valuable that past a point nobody even asks you about college. The problem seems to be that "a Github account" only exists for software development. For almost every other field that college covers, there's no equivalent. And the vast majority of college students aren't CS majors.
- gaius 16y ago
  but so valuable that past a point That point is pretty high tho'. The thing is, that people who don't hire people usually don't understand, is that programming experience that organizations are interested in is only experience of programming to external requirements under external constraints, because that is what working programmers do, e.g. "write a program to do X on system Y by time Z", where none of those things are what you would have chosen yourself. Which is why it's a really bad idea to put on your CV that you've had 10 years experience when you're 21, the guy interviewing you has 10 years actual experience and he'll not be impressed.
cma 16y ago
>Pre-internet regional schools were often held in near equal esteem as Harvard/Yale. As information became more fluid (USNWR and the internet) the ranking of credentials became easier to obtain. This won't change. If regional schools received such a blow, why did their tuitions radically increase right in line with the Ivies' increases? Also in response to, "the reason why it's a bubble is also what keeps it afloat;" there is no quantification there--what would the tuition numbers have to be before this statement didn't apply? Will it key applying no matter what, even if there was an increase that put tuitions, say, beyond the lifetime earning capacity of the average college graduate?

jonbischke 16y ago

I don't think it's going to be one system but rather many systems. I think there are a host of online communities that have arisen in the last few years that are actually doing this. A good example is Stack Overflow/Careers 2.0. The fact that companies are hiring people on the basis of their Stack Overflow reputation graph should strike fear into the hearts of college administrators everywhere (but likely won't of course). The change won't happen overnight but we've come a long way in just the last few years in terms of mechanisms that could ultimately rival the university when it comes to signaling and I think this shift is only getting started.

SergeyHack 16y ago
Even the founders of SO acknowledged that their (up-to-date) reputation does not reflect "smartness" :) So this is just another example of corruption as I see it. But I agree with you that future online community reputations can improve the situation.