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I agree with Thiel's essential point. We need to take a step back and ask ourselves what benefit is being derived from sending all these kids to college. The ki

I agree with Thiel's essential point. We need to take a step back and ask ourselves what benefit is being derived from sending all these kids to college. The kids also need to look carefully at the risk vs cost vs benefit of taking on debt in return for potentially higher future earnings. Having said that, his statement "If Harvard were really the best education, if it makes that much of a difference, why not franchise it so more people can attend" misses the point entirely. Sure, Harvard probably has above average education. However, the reason it's sought after is because of the perception that all your peers at Harvard will be extremely smart talented individuals. As a society, we're hoping that that by putting all these really smart kids together in the "Harvard environment", they'll go on create things that they wouldn't have been able to on their own. The point I'm trying to make is that the exclusivity of Harvard isn't "an excuse to do something mean", but rather an effort to create conditions where our smartest youngsters can get together and really change the world. I do, of course, agree that there are many other ways of achieving this goal than just college education.

gammarator 16y ago
Sharing the "Harvard environment" with talented peers can be pleasant, horizon-expanding, and occasionally inspirational. In my experience, though, it doesn't often inspire young people to change the world. Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads. Given the massive salary differential compared to virtually anything else one could choose, most go that route.
- microarchitect 16y ago
  Fair enough, this is a valid point. To me, this indicates that there's an opportunity here for folks like Theil who have the ability to command the respect of the students at Harvard to get these students interested in opportunities other than those that lead to a quick financial payoffs but instead might have a bigger impact on society.
- mbesto 16y ago
  > * Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads.* What happens when two bubbles collide? A bigger "POP"?
- michaelochurch 16y ago
  Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads. Given the massive salary differential compared to virtually anything else one could choose, most go that route. Entry-level investment banking compensation is pretty low on an hourly basis-- definitely lower than entry-level technology. IBD is about the only six-figure job available out of college, but it's awful when you consider the nature of the work and most people leave the industry within a year, not capitalizing at all on the "exit options"
  - gammarator 16y ago
    Agreed that the work is not nearly as appealing as an outsider imagines. My point is merely that when I graduated (caveat: ~6 years ago, pre-collapse), a majority (literally) of graduates were going into banking or high-profile consultancies. There is no way all those folks came to Harvard with the goal to join The System four years later, so the net effect of their education was to redirect their ambitions into existing power structures.
- freshfunk 16y ago
  Not Harvard, but Yale has put out more US Presidents than any Ivy league school (or any university for that matter).
spenrose 16y ago
"the exclusivity of Harvard isn't "an excuse to do something mean", but rather an effort to create conditions where our smartest youngsters can get together and really change the world." Where by "change the world" you mean "continue to see that the Haves remain the Haves." You are correct to identity gathering a critical mass of best and brightest as a key part of the Harvard/Stanford "best of the best" puzzle, but the goal isn't to improve what they do, it's to introduce them to each other so that in 20 years they can sit on each others boards and amicably divide up the spoils of the markets they control. Quite a few students think the way you do, but the parents and especially the board members don't.

gammarator 16y ago

Sharing the "Harvard environment" with talented peers can be pleasant, horizon-expanding, and occasionally inspirational. In my experience, though, it doesn't often inspire young people to change the world. Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads. Given the massive salary differential compared to virtually anything else one could choose, most go that route.

microarchitect 16y ago
Fair enough, this is a valid point. To me, this indicates that there's an opportunity here for folks like Theil who have the ability to command the respect of the students at Harvard to get these students interested in opportunities other than those that lead to a quick financial payoffs but instead might have a bigger impact on society.
mbesto 16y ago
> * Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads.* What happens when two bubbles collide? A bigger "POP"?
michaelochurch 16y ago
Instead, it introduces them to lucrative career options (e.g., investment banking) available mainly to Ivy League grads. Given the massive salary differential compared to virtually anything else one could choose, most go that route. Entry-level investment banking compensation is pretty low on an hourly basis-- definitely lower than entry-level technology. IBD is about the only six-figure job available out of college, but it's awful when you consider the nature of the work and most people leave the industry within a year, not capitalizing at all on the "exit options"
- gammarator 16y ago
  Agreed that the work is not nearly as appealing as an outsider imagines. My point is merely that when I graduated (caveat: ~6 years ago, pre-collapse), a majority (literally) of graduates were going into banking or high-profile consultancies. There is no way all those folks came to Harvard with the goal to join The System four years later, so the net effect of their education was to redirect their ambitions into existing power structures.
freshfunk 16y ago
Not Harvard, but Yale has put out more US Presidents than any Ivy league school (or any university for that matter).

spenrose 16y ago

"the exclusivity of Harvard isn't "an excuse to do something mean", but rather an effort to create conditions where our smartest youngsters can get together and really change the world." Where by "change the world" you mean "continue to see that the Haves remain the Haves." You are correct to identity gathering a critical mass of best and brightest as a key part of the Harvard/Stanford "best of the best" puzzle, but the goal isn't to improve what they do, it's to introduce them to each other so that in 20 years they can sit on each others boards and amicably divide up the spoils of the markets they control. Quite a few students think the way you do, but the parents and especially the board members don't.