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On this level of thinking I think we should consider the possibility that the notion of time is highly subjective. Indeed I think we should consider the possibi

by cammil 6y ago

On this level of thinking I think we should consider the possibility that the notion of time is highly subjective. Indeed I think we should consider the possibility that time is an illusion. That illusion is created by the mind, which habitually simulates the past and the future. The thinking mind is a simulator. This is why the past can be changed, because the past is a thought. It is also possible to suspend this simulating, and you can experience timelessness. You might have experienced something similar in "flow states". A practical mnemonic I use is to consider not filling time with your actions, but rather filling your actions with time. This means slowing down, observing in as much detail as possible, and appreciating every possible moment within each action. Hope someone finds this useful!

alexpetralia 6y ago
This is wonderful. I feel like there is more here however. If our perception of time is manipulable (e.g. flow states, psychedelics, confabulation), how do we use that knowledge to perceive having lived a more enjoyable life? Is it mastery over self-delusion? Does undivided attention on the passage of time contribute to well-being? What resources would you recommend to learn more (e.g. science? Eastern philosophy? etc.)
- cammil 6y ago
  > how do we use that knowledge to perceive having lived a more enjoyable life? I think this is also a construct of the simulating mind. It is simply a thought (or series of thoughts) that leads you to "perceive" that your past was enjoyable. This thought passes and once it has, there is no concept of your past. Of course this thought might come back again. I would suggest rather than hoping you can live a life in which you regularly perceive your past as enjoyable, simply observe the fact that you are thinking this thought. > Is it mastery over self-delusion? I am not sure what you mean by this. > Does undivided attention on the passage of time contribute to well-being? In my experience, definitely yes. > What resources would you recommend to learn more (e.g. science? Eastern philosophy? etc.) This is a hard one to answer I think. (Good) Science I think won't lead you astray. Eastern philosophy has so much to offer I think, but there is also a lot of nonsense that you probably should be careful to avoid. I think you have to use your common sense when judging. Does it make sense to you? Does it correspond with your experience, or is someone simply asking you to believe something? (This of course is the scientific process.) BTW, these ideas are not confined to Eastern philosophy, similar ideas were philosophised in the West. There is so much written about these ideas so I couldn't give you the canonical source of it all. One thing that I probably should mention is meditation. It seems to be the one common denominator. The way I see it, is it's the exercise that practically helps change the way you see, think and act. If you want some concrete recommendations I am happy to suggest some, but I find it's often more helpful for people to discover what resonates with them.
- limomium 6y ago
  Removing all clocks from my life made it more enjoyable. There is no time visible to me. I took down the wall clock. I hid all digital clocks on my devices. I never set alarms unless I absolutely need to. I can still access the time if I need it, which is rarely if ever. It took time to adjust to this. It only really hit me how frequently I had looked at the time when I constantly caught myself looking at the empty spot on the wall where the clock had been. I realized I'd look at the clock to decide if I should eat, instead of listening to my body's needs as I should be. I'd look at the clock to decide if I should sleep, instead of how tired I felt. Etc. Living without clocks has made me more aware of my self. One experiment I did was installing an app on my phone that vibrates it every 10 minutes or so. It was interesting observing how the passage of time changed depending on circumstance. When e.g. waiting for a bus, the phone took ages to vibrate. When out drinking with friends, it seemed to vibrate constantly.
shoes_for_thee 6y ago
It's funny -- as a young adult I thought that "time is an illusion, mannnnn" was such bullshit. As I get older and have this longer relationship with time, the more I realize there's something to it. How long ago was it that I was in my twenties? Or in high school? I can't really say. Anything further away than a few months all feels the same to me. Other, fairly new things, feel like they have always been there with me. My experience of time has become much stranger. My boss told me I should be working ten hour days. I told him life was too short and went on a vacation. I'm looking for different jobs now.
- leetrout 6y ago
  Were you fired or you are just saying now you're looking?
  - shoes_for_thee 6y ago
    I'm just saying that I'm now looking. I am not fired.
guerrilla 6y ago
While I tend to prefer this view and think this is a psychologically useful idea, we probably shouldn't take it too literally: how can it be squared with general relativity and its apparent implications of eternalism [1]? 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time...
- lcall 6y ago
  I do in fact believe life is eternal: that we began before birth, this life has a purpose (an important preparation step, in some ways), & it doesn't end at our mortal death. There is the whole science vs. religion debate, or one can see all real truth as compatible, learn some key things for oneself, and wait for the details that may seem conflicting for now, to get sorted out as one learns more. Much more detail at my site (a very tech-simple site, linked in my HN user profile, which I try to make skimmable). I hope that offends no one... (With any downvotes, thoughtful comments are appreciated; thanks.)

by cammil 6y ago

alexpetralia 6y ago

This is wonderful. I feel like there is more here however. If our perception of time is manipulable (e.g. flow states, psychedelics, confabulation), how do we use that knowledge to perceive having lived a more enjoyable life? Is it mastery over self-delusion? Does undivided attention on the passage of time contribute to well-being? What resources would you recommend to learn more (e.g. science? Eastern philosophy? etc.)

cammil 6y ago
> how do we use that knowledge to perceive having lived a more enjoyable life? I think this is also a construct of the simulating mind. It is simply a thought (or series of thoughts) that leads you to "perceive" that your past was enjoyable. This thought passes and once it has, there is no concept of your past. Of course this thought might come back again. I would suggest rather than hoping you can live a life in which you regularly perceive your past as enjoyable, simply observe the fact that you are thinking this thought. > Is it mastery over self-delusion? I am not sure what you mean by this. > Does undivided attention on the passage of time contribute to well-being? In my experience, definitely yes. > What resources would you recommend to learn more (e.g. science? Eastern philosophy? etc.) This is a hard one to answer I think. (Good) Science I think won't lead you astray. Eastern philosophy has so much to offer I think, but there is also a lot of nonsense that you probably should be careful to avoid. I think you have to use your common sense when judging. Does it make sense to you? Does it correspond with your experience, or is someone simply asking you to believe something? (This of course is the scientific process.) BTW, these ideas are not confined to Eastern philosophy, similar ideas were philosophised in the West. There is so much written about these ideas so I couldn't give you the canonical source of it all. One thing that I probably should mention is meditation. It seems to be the one common denominator. The way I see it, is it's the exercise that practically helps change the way you see, think and act. If you want some concrete recommendations I am happy to suggest some, but I find it's often more helpful for people to discover what resonates with them.
limomium 6y ago
Removing all clocks from my life made it more enjoyable. There is no time visible to me. I took down the wall clock. I hid all digital clocks on my devices. I never set alarms unless I absolutely need to. I can still access the time if I need it, which is rarely if ever. It took time to adjust to this. It only really hit me how frequently I had looked at the time when I constantly caught myself looking at the empty spot on the wall where the clock had been. I realized I'd look at the clock to decide if I should eat, instead of listening to my body's needs as I should be. I'd look at the clock to decide if I should sleep, instead of how tired I felt. Etc. Living without clocks has made me more aware of my self. One experiment I did was installing an app on my phone that vibrates it every 10 minutes or so. It was interesting observing how the passage of time changed depending on circumstance. When e.g. waiting for a bus, the phone took ages to vibrate. When out drinking with friends, it seemed to vibrate constantly.

shoes_for_thee 6y ago

It's funny -- as a young adult I thought that "time is an illusion, mannnnn" was such bullshit. As I get older and have this longer relationship with time, the more I realize there's something to it. How long ago was it that I was in my twenties? Or in high school? I can't really say. Anything further away than a few months all feels the same to me. Other, fairly new things, feel like they have always been there with me. My experience of time has become much stranger. My boss told me I should be working ten hour days. I told him life was too short and went on a vacation. I'm looking for different jobs now.

leetrout 6y ago
Were you fired or you are just saying now you're looking?
- shoes_for_thee 6y ago
  I'm just saying that I'm now looking. I am not fired.

guerrilla 6y ago

While I tend to prefer this view and think this is a psychologically useful idea, we probably shouldn't take it too literally: how can it be squared with general relativity and its apparent implications of eternalism [1]? 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time...

lcall 6y ago
I do in fact believe life is eternal: that we began before birth, this life has a purpose (an important preparation step, in some ways), & it doesn't end at our mortal death. There is the whole science vs. religion debate, or one can see all real truth as compatible, learn some key things for oneself, and wait for the details that may seem conflicting for now, to get sorted out as one learns more. Much more detail at my site (a very tech-simple site, linked in my HN user profile, which I try to make skimmable). I hope that offends no one... (With any downvotes, thoughtful comments are appreciated; thanks.)