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@dang: You previously said in another comment: > The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't co

@dang: You previously said in another comment: > The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. "Boo $BigCo", "yay $BigCo" fan-v.-antifan cage matches are not curious conversation. We want curious conversation. If you really desire that, then please consider making some fundamental changes to how HN voting and auto-moderation works. I just saw a comment pop up and get downvoted into the gray WHILE IT WAS STILL AT "0 minutes ago": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105 Currently, every HN mechanism seems designed to make these "conversations" one-sided, where $SideA just gets to pile on $SideB with abandon and all $SideB can do is watch: • Any user that piles on $PitchforkTarget gets tens of upvotes. • Any comment that does not pile on $PitchforkTarget gets downvoted, no matter how substantive or thoughtful it is. • It’s not enough to just not support $PitchforkTarget; simply remaining neutral is enough to get downvoted. • A few downvotes in a row makes you unable to post anything anywhere on HN for several hours. All this comes together to say: “When there’s a mob against $PitchforkTarget, join it or stay out of it.” HN does not allow the "wrong" side a chance to be heard, and punishes users for having the "incorrect" opinion. I am literally afraid to post anything by now on such topics. This is NOT a conversation, this is an echo chamber.

dang 6y ago
Comments sometimes get downvoted in the first minute. That's just how stochastic processes work if you have enough data, and there are a lot of people reading these threads. These discussions are not one-sided—they're two-sided at least, which is one reason people get so mad at each other. Each side feels like the discussion is one-sided against it though. I certainly agree that internet dynamics favor indignation, but that's not specific to HN and it's not clear what any technical changes could do to mitigate it. We do everything we can as moderators. This is inaccurate: "A few downvotes in a row makes you unable to post anything anywhere on HN for several hours". Rate limiting isn't based on votes. Moderators rate-limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. There are also some software filters that can lead to rate limits, such as for new accounts.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > Comments sometimes get downvoted in the first minute. Making them invisible to other readers and pushing them down, like the example [0] above. All it takes is, what, 2 or 3 downvotes to prevent thousands of other users from even seeing a comment? > These discussions are not one-sided—they're two-sided at least On this very page, there were only 2 comments for most of the time, without clicking "More": Yours, and the one favoring Epic. Any comments with an opposing view appeared briefly before being driven out in under a minute, again like that example [0]. > it's not clear what any technical changes could do to mitigate it. On Reddit, some communities hide karma scores for a specified amount of time. HN could do the same: Do not show the score and do not let the score affect a comment's visibility for N hours. That would at least ensure that every voice has a chance to be heard, and reduce the emotions which result from seeing yourself instantly downvoted if you don't agree with the louder voices. For spam and more severe violations, there's always the Flag button. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105
- Razengan 6y ago
  As for > Rate limiting isn't based on votes. Moderators rate-limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. I had never encountered that in all my 6 years on HN, until recently when I tried to take the side of the mob's targets as loudly as the voices decrying them in such "conversations".

dang 6y ago

Comments sometimes get downvoted in the first minute. That's just how stochastic processes work if you have enough data, and there are a lot of people reading these threads. These discussions are not one-sided—they're two-sided at least, which is one reason people get so mad at each other. Each side feels like the discussion is one-sided against it though. I certainly agree that internet dynamics favor indignation, but that's not specific to HN and it's not clear what any technical changes could do to mitigate it. We do everything we can as moderators. This is inaccurate: "A few downvotes in a row makes you unable to post anything anywhere on HN for several hours". Rate limiting isn't based on votes. Moderators rate-limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. There are also some software filters that can lead to rate limits, such as for new accounts.

Razengan 6y ago
> Comments sometimes get downvoted in the first minute. Making them invisible to other readers and pushing them down, like the example [0] above. All it takes is, what, 2 or 3 downvotes to prevent thousands of other users from even seeing a comment? > These discussions are not one-sided—they're two-sided at least On this very page, there were only 2 comments for most of the time, without clicking "More": Yours, and the one favoring Epic. Any comments with an opposing view appeared briefly before being driven out in under a minute, again like that example [0]. > it's not clear what any technical changes could do to mitigate it. On Reddit, some communities hide karma scores for a specified amount of time. HN could do the same: Do not show the score and do not let the score affect a comment's visibility for N hours. That would at least ensure that every voice has a chance to be heard, and reduce the emotions which result from seeing yourself instantly downvoted if you don't agree with the louder voices. For spam and more severe violations, there's always the Flag button. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105
Razengan 6y ago
As for > Rate limiting isn't based on votes. Moderators rate-limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. I had never encountered that in all my 6 years on HN, until recently when I tried to take the side of the mob's targets as loudly as the voices decrying them in such "conversations".