5 ms·

I pulled this off too, but the main criteria (and this is NOT a given) was finally landing a job with a consistent schedule. It was not even remotely possible w

I pulled this off too, but the main criteria (and this is NOT a given) was finally landing a job with a consistent schedule. It was not even remotely possible working retail before that, with shifts that varied by day, by week, by whomever called in sick and required last minute shuffling... that was a mess. This is the unfortunate practical reality for large segments of the population. Once you have a consistent schedule, barring medical issues, sleeping is easy. Simply pick a time 8+ hours before your routine for the day needs to begin, and get into bed at that time every day. Actually in bed! Not on your phone, not watching TV, lights off and eyes closed. Helps if your evening routine winds down in intensity, but won't matter much if you're already exhausted. You can't do anything about your mind racing some nights, but for the most part after a week of this schedule your body takes the hint and adjusts your rhythm accordingly. I've worked tons of odd night shifts this way; the consistency of routine seems to be far more important than the specific time. Which block of time works for you is a matter of job, lifestyle, and a bunch of other factors that a lot of folks may not be in full control of. I think the real dumb luck here is having enough controllable factors that carving out the same 8+ hour block each night is possible. In my mind though, it is worth the effort. Good, consistent sleep quality has an absolutely massive impact on your willpower and general ability to focus.

perl4ever 6y ago
>Once you have a consistent schedule, barring medical issues, sleeping is easy I respect your personal experience, but you are coming on a little strong in terms of assuming everyone is just like yourself. Something I've seen other people mention, and may have myself (although not formally diagnosed): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder I have worked 8-5, 2-11, and 11-8, and no matter what my schedule was, I had the urge to stay up a little later, but needed at least 8 hours to feel adequately rested. So typically I would get 7 hours or so and feel exhausted every morning. Without work or appointments, I would rotate my schedule around the clock, day by day. It's as if I was tuned to a planet with a slightly longer day. After many, many years, I found by accident that bupropion (aka Zyban aka Wellbutrin) fixed it, just like that. It was amazing. But I wasn't able to tolerate a full dosage, so that didn't last. It does point to some dysfunction of nicotinic receptors.
- bobf 6y ago
  I'm the same way, naturally preferring something like a 26-27 hour day with 17+ hours awake and 9+ hours of sleep. I'd be very interested to hear more about your experience, especially of bupropion helping - could you email me (in my profile)? I've found melatonin, doxylamine succinate, zolpidem, and alprazolam to each be somewhat helpful at times although they all have diminishing returns over time and seem to affect sleep quality.
  - bonestamp2 6y ago
    Assuming it's is legal where you are, have you tried cannabis? No hangover like alcohol, small doses won't make you feel intoxicated, sleep is easier to achieve and the quality is great. It doesn't help everyone, but it's worth a shot if you haven't tried it. Depending on where you live, you may be able to order it online and have it delivered like anything else. I like edible gummies. Take 30-60 minutes before you want to sleep, easy to take, easy to divide into smaller doses, no smell.
    - shados 6y ago
      My understanding with weed is that it reduces the amount of REM sleep you get. You may come up ahead over all with this tradeoff, but not ahead of someone who sleeps "normally".
    - oarabbus_ 6y ago
      >sleep is easier to achieve and the quality is great It's easier to fall asleep sometimes, but I find sleep quality markedly worsened with cannabis, personally. I have to sleep an extra hour or two if I've consumed cannabis prior to sleep.
  - jdabney 6y ago
    I was diagnosed with Delayed sleep phase disorder and have the same issue where sleep aids only work a few days at a time before stopping with diminishing returns everyday. Nothing but just letting myself sleep when my body wants to sleep has worked.
  - 6y ago
kungato 6y ago
People used to wake up at 5 to be at the factory at 6 am. Now you have the gp complaining the construction work starts at 7. Can't please everyone
- varjag 6y ago
  It appears you assume that since people had to be at work 6am they liked it back in the day.
  - kungato 6y ago
    My grandparents all say the liked it and they still wake up at that time after 20 years in retirement
- shados 6y ago
  I complain construction starts at 7 because quiet hours start at 11 (and in practice no one enforces them that early). Let's forget circadian rhythm for a sec and my issue isn't how early or late it is. My issue is that its a strict 8 hours window when we know: - people need between 7-10 hours of sleep depending on age - most people don't fall asleep instantly - sleep deprivation is a pervasive problem with significant health implication. If we (again, forgetting circadian rythm as it makes things more nuanced) move things to start at 5am that's fine, but then things have to stop much, MUCH earlier (they wouldn't).
dota_fanatic 6y ago
A better system is to only get in bed when you feel sleepy, like you could fall asleep in the next 10 minutes, and wake up at the same time every day. If you get in bed and don't fall asleep in the next ten minutes, get up and don't come back to bed until you feel sleepy again. Strongly associate the environment of a bedroom with sleeping. Forcing yourself to get in bed even when you're not sleepy can potentially lead to just lying there thinking, conditioning yourself negatively, especially if the character of those thoughts is "argh I should be asleep why am I not sleepy I'm going to be so tired in the morning what's wrong with me..."
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Perhaps you're giving yourself pressure unnecessarily. I for one enjoy and look forward to no-distraction time alone with my thoughts in the late evening.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Yes, with dim warm lights a while before bed. And some excercise during the day.

perl4ever 6y ago

>Once you have a consistent schedule, barring medical issues, sleeping is easy I respect your personal experience, but you are coming on a little strong in terms of assuming everyone is just like yourself. Something I've seen other people mention, and may have myself (although not formally diagnosed): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder I have worked 8-5, 2-11, and 11-8, and no matter what my schedule was, I had the urge to stay up a little later, but needed at least 8 hours to feel adequately rested. So typically I would get 7 hours or so and feel exhausted every morning. Without work or appointments, I would rotate my schedule around the clock, day by day. It's as if I was tuned to a planet with a slightly longer day. After many, many years, I found by accident that bupropion (aka Zyban aka Wellbutrin) fixed it, just like that. It was amazing. But I wasn't able to tolerate a full dosage, so that didn't last. It does point to some dysfunction of nicotinic receptors.

bobf 6y ago
I'm the same way, naturally preferring something like a 26-27 hour day with 17+ hours awake and 9+ hours of sleep. I'd be very interested to hear more about your experience, especially of bupropion helping - could you email me (in my profile)? I've found melatonin, doxylamine succinate, zolpidem, and alprazolam to each be somewhat helpful at times although they all have diminishing returns over time and seem to affect sleep quality.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  Assuming it's is legal where you are, have you tried cannabis? No hangover like alcohol, small doses won't make you feel intoxicated, sleep is easier to achieve and the quality is great. It doesn't help everyone, but it's worth a shot if you haven't tried it. Depending on where you live, you may be able to order it online and have it delivered like anything else. I like edible gummies. Take 30-60 minutes before you want to sleep, easy to take, easy to divide into smaller doses, no smell.
  - shados 6y ago
    My understanding with weed is that it reduces the amount of REM sleep you get. You may come up ahead over all with this tradeoff, but not ahead of someone who sleeps "normally".
  - oarabbus_ 6y ago
    >sleep is easier to achieve and the quality is great It's easier to fall asleep sometimes, but I find sleep quality markedly worsened with cannabis, personally. I have to sleep an extra hour or two if I've consumed cannabis prior to sleep.
- jdabney 6y ago
  I was diagnosed with Delayed sleep phase disorder and have the same issue where sleep aids only work a few days at a time before stopping with diminishing returns everyday. Nothing but just letting myself sleep when my body wants to sleep has worked.
- 6y ago

kungato 6y ago

People used to wake up at 5 to be at the factory at 6 am. Now you have the gp complaining the construction work starts at 7. Can't please everyone

varjag 6y ago
It appears you assume that since people had to be at work 6am they liked it back in the day.
- kungato 6y ago
  My grandparents all say the liked it and they still wake up at that time after 20 years in retirement
shados 6y ago
I complain construction starts at 7 because quiet hours start at 11 (and in practice no one enforces them that early). Let's forget circadian rhythm for a sec and my issue isn't how early or late it is. My issue is that its a strict 8 hours window when we know: - people need between 7-10 hours of sleep depending on age - most people don't fall asleep instantly - sleep deprivation is a pervasive problem with significant health implication. If we (again, forgetting circadian rythm as it makes things more nuanced) move things to start at 5am that's fine, but then things have to stop much, MUCH earlier (they wouldn't).

dota_fanatic 6y ago

A better system is to only get in bed when you feel sleepy, like you could fall asleep in the next 10 minutes, and wake up at the same time every day. If you get in bed and don't fall asleep in the next ten minutes, get up and don't come back to bed until you feel sleepy again. Strongly associate the environment of a bedroom with sleeping. Forcing yourself to get in bed even when you're not sleepy can potentially lead to just lying there thinking, conditioning yourself negatively, especially if the character of those thoughts is "argh I should be asleep why am I not sleepy I'm going to be so tired in the morning what's wrong with me..."

mixmastamyk 6y ago
Perhaps you're giving yourself pressure unnecessarily. I for one enjoy and look forward to no-distraction time alone with my thoughts in the late evening.

mixmastamyk 6y ago

Yes, with dim warm lights a while before bed. And some excercise during the day.