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The problem is there is no alternative to the App Store on iPhones. Epic Games couldn't open their own Epic Games App Store and sell their games there because A

The problem is there is no alternative to the App Store on iPhones. Epic Games couldn't open their own Epic Games App Store and sell their games there because Apple has a complete control over how apps can be used and sold on iPhones.

risyachka 6y ago
True, but it doesn't make a situation unfair. It's just how it is. The court shouldn't be able to change business models that you don't like.
qeternity 6y ago
There doesn’t need to be an alternative App Store in iOS. There just need to be alternatives to iOS. This whole “Apple have a monopoly inside their own product” is an absurd line of questioning when their product has anything but a monopoly. This argument is akin to saying that Disney has a monopoly on hotdog sales inside Disneyland and should be forced to allow competitors to open hotdog stands inside Disneyland.
- sumedh 6y ago
  > Apple have a monopoly inside their own product” is an absurd line of questioning Didn't MS get into trouble for the exact same reasons, they were using their monopoly in the OS market to force Netscape out of business.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    MSFT had a monopoly outside of their own product. This is my point. Windows had essentially 100% market share, whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      > whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share. I dont think that is the point, Apple has 100% market share on its devices and its using its dominant position in that market to make that market anticompetitive (as per Epic) Apple also has secret deals with other big companies where they can negotiate the commission Apple gets, apparently they did not give such treatment to Epic and other devs
      - qeternity 6y ago
        > I dont think that is the point, Apple has 100% market share on its devices and its using its dominant position in that market to make that market anticompetitive (as per Epic) No, it's exactly the point and was the catalyst for my comment. Apple sells a product. If you don't like it, buy something else. The only time that doesn't hold up is when there are not any practical alternatives (a la Windows) and thus the product (perhaps) satisfies the conditions for a monopoly. > Apple also has secret deals with other big companies where they can negotiate the commission Apple gets, apparently they did not give such treatment to Epic and other devs And? They're completely free to do this.
        sumedh 6y ago
        > No, it's exactly the point I guess its upto the judge to decide that now whether they are abusing their dominant position or not. > And? They're completely free to do this. But then why lie about it, Cook said they have the same rules for everyone but then its revealed that they have secret deals with some others.
- eps 6y ago
  Microsoft got slapped for the anti-competitive behavior in the userland of their OS and they didn't even prevent installing the alternatives.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    See my above comment: > MSFT had a monopoly outside of their own product. This is my point. Windows had essentially 100% market share, whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share.
- huhtenberg 6y ago
  This is not a valid analogy. I am not renting my phone from Apple, I own it. So when I am buying an instance of Disneyland, being able to install my own hotdog stands is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

risyachka 6y ago

True, but it doesn't make a situation unfair. It's just how it is. The court shouldn't be able to change business models that you don't like.

qeternity 6y ago

There doesn’t need to be an alternative App Store in iOS. There just need to be alternatives to iOS. This whole “Apple have a monopoly inside their own product” is an absurd line of questioning when their product has anything but a monopoly. This argument is akin to saying that Disney has a monopoly on hotdog sales inside Disneyland and should be forced to allow competitors to open hotdog stands inside Disneyland.

sumedh 6y ago
> Apple have a monopoly inside their own product” is an absurd line of questioning Didn't MS get into trouble for the exact same reasons, they were using their monopoly in the OS market to force Netscape out of business.
- qeternity 6y ago
  MSFT had a monopoly outside of their own product. This is my point. Windows had essentially 100% market share, whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    > whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share. I dont think that is the point, Apple has 100% market share on its devices and its using its dominant position in that market to make that market anticompetitive (as per Epic) Apple also has secret deals with other big companies where they can negotiate the commission Apple gets, apparently they did not give such treatment to Epic and other devs
    - qeternity 6y ago
      > I dont think that is the point, Apple has 100% market share on its devices and its using its dominant position in that market to make that market anticompetitive (as per Epic) No, it's exactly the point and was the catalyst for my comment. Apple sells a product. If you don't like it, buy something else. The only time that doesn't hold up is when there are not any practical alternatives (a la Windows) and thus the product (perhaps) satisfies the conditions for a monopoly. > Apple also has secret deals with other big companies where they can negotiate the commission Apple gets, apparently they did not give such treatment to Epic and other devs And? They're completely free to do this.
      - sumedh 6y ago
        > No, it's exactly the point I guess its upto the judge to decide that now whether they are abusing their dominant position or not. > And? They're completely free to do this. But then why lie about it, Cook said they have the same rules for everyone but then its revealed that they have secret deals with some others.
eps 6y ago
Microsoft got slapped for the anti-competitive behavior in the userland of their OS and they didn't even prevent installing the alternatives.
- qeternity 6y ago
  See my above comment: > MSFT had a monopoly outside of their own product. This is my point. Windows had essentially 100% market share, whereas iOS has somewhere around 25% market share.
huhtenberg 6y ago
This is not a valid analogy. I am not renting my phone from Apple, I own it. So when I am buying an instance of Disneyland, being able to install my own hotdog stands is a perfectly reasonable expectation.