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> His feats are impressive in the same way building a skyscraper is impressive Um, but isn't he chief rocket engineer at SpaceX for example? And are there not

> His feats are impressive in the same way building a skyscraper is impressive Um, but isn't he chief rocket engineer at SpaceX for example? And are there not numerous stories and anecdotes of people working at SpaceX who say they are amazed at how good his brain is, how fast he calculates ridiculously complex equations in real time. And, didn't SpaceX send people to ISS and create reusable rockets and design new machines to weld steel in a way that had never been done before and, well, so much more. Isn't that a little bit more impressive than building a Skyscraper? But anyway, building a skyscraper is pretty cool why is that the bad thing to do here?

camjohnson26 6y ago
Musk the media legend is a much different person than Musk the man. He is not a rocket scientist, he didn’t drop out of a phd at Stanford, he didn’t found Tesla, and he almost killed PayPal. Link me to one piece of technical work he has ever done, not something his employees have done that he slapped his name on.
- kjksf 6y ago
  Are we applying the same measuring tape to Musk as to other great businessmen? How many lines of code did Steve Jobs write? How many circuits boards did he design? Show me the work that wasn't done by his employees that he slapped his name on? How many lines of code did Bill Gates write for Windows? For Excel? For Internet Explorer? He's clearly a technically incompetent fraudster stealing credit from his employees. How many warehouses did Jeff Bezos design and build? What's his technical contribution to Kindle? How many packages did he personally deliver? Clearly he's technically incompetent fraudster stealing credit from his employees. Musk conceived, funded and managed all his extremely successful companies. In case of Zip2 he was even the first (and only) coder. I really don't get this desire to bring him down by denying that his achievements are extremely impressive.
  - cma 6y ago
    Musk didn't conceive Tesla, he joined as investor and is called founder after a payoff in a lawsuit to get the title.
  - newyankee 6y ago
    Also unlike many other business leaders Musk has demonstrated his exceptional technical knowledge of the fields he works in as demonstrated by his Physics first principles approach.
  - ctvo 6y ago
    This is moving the goal post. The reply that started this chain had the following to say: > Um, but isn't he chief rocket engineer at SpaceX for example? And are there not numerous stories and anecdotes of people working at SpaceX who say they are amazed at how good his brain is, how fast he calculates ridiculously complex equations in real time. There's a difference between being a good business person (Elon is exceptional at marketing and execution) and a genius scientist / engineer. Elon has tried to market himself as the latter, and has a following online (mostly male and interested in tech) that believes it. There hasn't been a groundbreaking paper, a patent or some other innovation that Elon personally contributed to that I'm aware of.
    - jv22222 6y ago
      > There hasn't been a groundbreaking paper, a patent or some other innovation that Elon personally contributed to that I'm aware of. What about these? https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&source=hp&ei=4iuVW4jkOeKBk-4PxNCSyAc&ins=false&q=elon%2Bmusk&gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwzqtKMzRgBAATUALy&oq=elo&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.46i39j35i39l2j0i131j0i131i20i263.2973.4007..5022...1.0..0.105.303.1j2......0....1.......5..0i67.XlLV44ihJEo https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&source=hp&ei=4iuVW4jkO...
      - ctvo 6y ago
        This link is better, since the results in your link is doing a full text search on the document: https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Elon+Musk https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Elon+Musk While great, having worked in these environments before, we almost always put our bosses on the patent if they contributed to the discussion in any way[1]. Giving the benefit of the doubt, would those contributions be considered substantial? 1 - https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Jeffrey+Bezos https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Jeffrey+Bezos https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Steve+Jobs https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Steve+Jobs https://patents.google.com/?inventor=William+H.+Gates https://patents.google.com/?inventor=William+H.+Gates https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Mark+Zuckerberg https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Mark+Zuckerberg
    - mpfundstein 6y ago
  - unishark 6y ago
    > Are we applying the same measuring tape to Musk as to other great businessmen? Why wouldn't we? Gates was some kind of computer whiz kid in his early days, and who did write a lot of code. I noticed you picked certain later products, I guess he wasn't a involved in those? Jobs obviously wasn't the technical mind in his ventures. We can give these people credit for achievements as entrepreneurs without getting caught up in mis-attrtibuting credit for technical skill.
  - KKKKkkkk1 6y ago
    Steve Jobs never slapped his name on other people's work. He never claimed he was an engineer. The original Mac went to manufacturing with the names of the whole team engraved on the inside of the case [0]. For better and for worse, he viewed himself as a product visionary, and that's exactly what he was. [0] https://www.cultofmac.com/122408/signed-by-steve-jobs-co-signatures-inside-the-original-macintosh-case/ https://www.cultofmac.com/122408/signed-by-steve-jobs-co-sig...
    - cma 6y ago
      >> Steve Jobs never slapped his name on other people's work I'm not sure he told Atari he couldn't program: >Jobs convinced Wozniak to work on the game during his day job at Hewlett-Packard, when he was meant to be designing calculators. At night the two would collaborate on building it at Atari: Wozniak as engineer, Jobs as breadboarder and tester. >Allegedly, Jobs told Wozniak that he could have half of a $700 bounty if they were able to get the chip count under 50 (typical games of the day tended to require around 100 chips). After four sleepless days that gave both of them a case of mono (an artificial time limit, it turns out: Jobs had a plane to catch, Atari wasn't in that much of a rush), the brilliantly gifted Wozniak delivered a working board with just 46 chips. >Jobs made good on his promise and gave Wozniak his promised $350. What he didn't tell him -- and what Wozniak didn't find out until several years later -- was that Jobs also pocketed a bonus somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000. Though it's often reported that this caused a rift in their friendship, Wozniak seems to have no hard feelings. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_Employee_Number_40.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_...
      - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
        Jobs could and did program. He couldn't do what Woz could, though. Nobody could. And nobody could create or sell a vision like Jobs. Apple was a great division of labor. > What he didn't tell him -- and what Wozniak didn't find out until several years later -- was that Jobs also pocketed a bonus somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000. That part is crappy for sure.
- TheMblabla 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2
RivieraKid 6y ago
> how fast he calculates ridiculously complex equations in real time The sad part is that this is not sarcasm.

camjohnson26 6y ago

Musk the media legend is a much different person than Musk the man. He is not a rocket scientist, he didn’t drop out of a phd at Stanford, he didn’t found Tesla, and he almost killed PayPal. Link me to one piece of technical work he has ever done, not something his employees have done that he slapped his name on.

kjksf 6y ago
Are we applying the same measuring tape to Musk as to other great businessmen? How many lines of code did Steve Jobs write? How many circuits boards did he design? Show me the work that wasn't done by his employees that he slapped his name on? How many lines of code did Bill Gates write for Windows? For Excel? For Internet Explorer? He's clearly a technically incompetent fraudster stealing credit from his employees. How many warehouses did Jeff Bezos design and build? What's his technical contribution to Kindle? How many packages did he personally deliver? Clearly he's technically incompetent fraudster stealing credit from his employees. Musk conceived, funded and managed all his extremely successful companies. In case of Zip2 he was even the first (and only) coder. I really don't get this desire to bring him down by denying that his achievements are extremely impressive.
- cma 6y ago
  Musk didn't conceive Tesla, he joined as investor and is called founder after a payoff in a lawsuit to get the title.
- newyankee 6y ago
  Also unlike many other business leaders Musk has demonstrated his exceptional technical knowledge of the fields he works in as demonstrated by his Physics first principles approach.
- ctvo 6y ago
  This is moving the goal post. The reply that started this chain had the following to say: > Um, but isn't he chief rocket engineer at SpaceX for example? And are there not numerous stories and anecdotes of people working at SpaceX who say they are amazed at how good his brain is, how fast he calculates ridiculously complex equations in real time. There's a difference between being a good business person (Elon is exceptional at marketing and execution) and a genius scientist / engineer. Elon has tried to market himself as the latter, and has a following online (mostly male and interested in tech) that believes it. There hasn't been a groundbreaking paper, a patent or some other innovation that Elon personally contributed to that I'm aware of.
  - jv22222 6y ago
    > There hasn't been a groundbreaking paper, a patent or some other innovation that Elon personally contributed to that I'm aware of. What about these? https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&source=hp&ei=4iuVW4jkOeKBk-4PxNCSyAc&ins=false&q=elon%2Bmusk&gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwzqtKMzRgBAATUALy&oq=elo&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.46i39j35i39l2j0i131j0i131i20i263.2973.4007..5022...1.0..0.105.303.1j2......0....1.......5..0i67.XlLV44ihJEo https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&source=hp&ei=4iuVW4jkO...
    - ctvo 6y ago
      This link is better, since the results in your link is doing a full text search on the document: https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Elon+Musk https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Elon+Musk While great, having worked in these environments before, we almost always put our bosses on the patent if they contributed to the discussion in any way[1]. Giving the benefit of the doubt, would those contributions be considered substantial? 1 - https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Jeffrey+Bezos https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Jeffrey+Bezos https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Steve+Jobs https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Steve+Jobs https://patents.google.com/?inventor=William+H.+Gates https://patents.google.com/?inventor=William+H.+Gates https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Mark+Zuckerberg https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Mark+Zuckerberg
  - mpfundstein 6y ago
- unishark 6y ago
  > Are we applying the same measuring tape to Musk as to other great businessmen? Why wouldn't we? Gates was some kind of computer whiz kid in his early days, and who did write a lot of code. I noticed you picked certain later products, I guess he wasn't a involved in those? Jobs obviously wasn't the technical mind in his ventures. We can give these people credit for achievements as entrepreneurs without getting caught up in mis-attrtibuting credit for technical skill.
- KKKKkkkk1 6y ago
  Steve Jobs never slapped his name on other people's work. He never claimed he was an engineer. The original Mac went to manufacturing with the names of the whole team engraved on the inside of the case [0]. For better and for worse, he viewed himself as a product visionary, and that's exactly what he was. [0] https://www.cultofmac.com/122408/signed-by-steve-jobs-co-signatures-inside-the-original-macintosh-case/ https://www.cultofmac.com/122408/signed-by-steve-jobs-co-sig...
  - cma 6y ago
    >> Steve Jobs never slapped his name on other people's work I'm not sure he told Atari he couldn't program: >Jobs convinced Wozniak to work on the game during his day job at Hewlett-Packard, when he was meant to be designing calculators. At night the two would collaborate on building it at Atari: Wozniak as engineer, Jobs as breadboarder and tester. >Allegedly, Jobs told Wozniak that he could have half of a $700 bounty if they were able to get the chip count under 50 (typical games of the day tended to require around 100 chips). After four sleepless days that gave both of them a case of mono (an artificial time limit, it turns out: Jobs had a plane to catch, Atari wasn't in that much of a rush), the brilliantly gifted Wozniak delivered a working board with just 46 chips. >Jobs made good on his promise and gave Wozniak his promised $350. What he didn't tell him -- and what Wozniak didn't find out until several years later -- was that Jobs also pocketed a bonus somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000. Though it's often reported that this caused a rift in their friendship, Wozniak seems to have no hard feelings. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_Employee_Number_40.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_...
    - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
      Jobs could and did program. He couldn't do what Woz could, though. Nobody could. And nobody could create or sell a vision like Jobs. Apple was a great division of labor. > What he didn't tell him -- and what Wozniak didn't find out until several years later -- was that Jobs also pocketed a bonus somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000. That part is crappy for sure.
TheMblabla 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2

RivieraKid 6y ago

> how fast he calculates ridiculously complex equations in real time The sad part is that this is not sarcasm.