5 ms·

I'm torn on this one. At the latitude where I live (northern Illinois), I both appreciate it staying light past 5pm in the winter, and would appreciate it stayi

I'm torn on this one. At the latitude where I live (northern Illinois), I both appreciate it staying light past 5pm in the winter, and would appreciate it staying dark past 5am in the summer. But I also spend some time further north, in northern Michigan, and there I'd sure be annoyed if the sun were still up at 10pm in the summer. And might be willing to accept a 4pm winter sunset in order to have the sun up before 8am - that far north, you won't be out much in the evening in the middle of winter, anyway, and shoveling the sidewalk before sunrise is just depressing. Then I realize that this is all kind of beating around the bush, and what I'd really like is an end to the USA's ridiculous culture of 9 hour work days and eating at one's desk, so that I could take a long lunch and use that to get my sunlight in winter. So, meh, I think that I really don't care between permanent standard and permanent daylight time, I just want to get rid of the changing.

joe-collins 6y ago
Let the federal government dictate a default time per state corresponding to longitude, as we have now. Each state can choose to operate at {-1, +0, +1} hours from baseline.
- labster 6y ago
  Three hour changes at the state line sounds like fun. I approve this plan.
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
> sure be annoyed if the sun were still up at 10pm in the summer. It actually does that here in Launceston Tasmanian.. Not full sun, but definitely still twilight at 21:50. And your right: it's fucking irritating for a good three or four weeks. I need a sleep mask.
pkphilip 6y ago
Can't the federal govt leave the the time the way it is and just change the work time alone? Example: 8am-3pm during winters. 9am to 4pm during summers etc?
- ByteJockey 6y ago
  The government doesn't regulate work time (as in time that shifts start/stop, there are rules around number of hours worked).
  - anticensor 6y ago
    I think he meant the timespan that government servants work, because those hours set an example to follow for others.
    - ByteJockey 6y ago
      Ah, ok. I could see that being a thing. Although historically, if I'm not mistaken, it tends to be in the other order. Government services tend to sync up with what everyone else is doing (my understanding is that the 8 hour day originated in the private union movement and only came to government work later).
- tzs 6y ago
  If you change the hours instead of the clocks, you either need to have two sets of everything with a time printed on it that you swap between, or you need to print both times on everything and people have to remember which is which. If you are going to have standard/daylight time it is a lot easier to just change the clocks since clocks are designed to be easy to change. For a while this was not true. When digital electronics became cheap and common, designers started putting clocks in everything and so a DST change might involve going through your house having to change dozens of clocks. Before this, we'd typically only have a couple wall clocks in a house, an alarm clock in each bedroom, and our watches, most of which we had to regularly set anyway to keep them on time so DST wasn't much of a hassle. Now we still do have clocks everywhere--I think I counted something like 20 clocks in my house recently--but now most of them are self-setting. I've only got 3 that I actually have to manually change for DST.
  - wnoise 6y ago
    > If you are going to have standard/daylight time it is a lot easier to just change the clocks since clocks are designed to be easy to change. Hahaha There have been immeasurable amounts of engineering put into this, and it still doesn't reliably work.
arethuza 6y ago
"I'd sure be annoyed if the sun were still up at 10pm in the summer" Out of interest why would you be annoyed - here in Scotland it's still light at that time in summer and it is glorious - best time of the year.
- csydas 6y ago
  Similarly, I am in St Petersburg Russia, and white nights, while taking a little to get used to, are very pretty. You have to make a major adjustment though in the form of heavy window drapes ). But since I moved to Russia, I have thoroughly enjoyed no DST, it really is a headache for a lot of things and it's more annoying to work with our colleagues in the US and EU who do respect DST as we have to add just that much more planning. DST is an artifact we don't need anymore.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  I'm in Norway. While the sun technically goes down, it just goes barely below the horizon so we just have a few hours of civil twilight and if there are a few clouds, a sunset that lasts for hours until the sun comes back up. I can read outside so long as it isn't too cloudy - and barely need light to do so if it is. It is pretty glorious, though some folks do need to darken their bedroom to sleep well - especially immigrants.
  - kevsim 6y ago
    Immigrant in Norway. Can confirm. First few years were tough, but now I don't even bother with curtains. Summers here are the best (provided the weather isn't awful).
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      I was kind of lucky myself - I worked nights and was used to sleeping when light outside. And you are right - summers are pretty wonderful, though I like it when the summers are cool. After 7 years here, I still don't recommend swimming in a pond on a mountaintop. The water is still cold.
- 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

joe-collins 6y ago

Let the federal government dictate a default time per state corresponding to longitude, as we have now. Each state can choose to operate at {-1, +0, +1} hours from baseline.

labster 6y ago
Three hour changes at the state line sounds like fun. I approve this plan.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

> sure be annoyed if the sun were still up at 10pm in the summer. It actually does that here in Launceston Tasmanian.. Not full sun, but definitely still twilight at 21:50. And your right: it's fucking irritating for a good three or four weeks. I need a sleep mask.

pkphilip 6y ago

Can't the federal govt leave the the time the way it is and just change the work time alone? Example: 8am-3pm during winters. 9am to 4pm during summers etc?

ByteJockey 6y ago
The government doesn't regulate work time (as in time that shifts start/stop, there are rules around number of hours worked).
- anticensor 6y ago
  I think he meant the timespan that government servants work, because those hours set an example to follow for others.
  - ByteJockey 6y ago
    Ah, ok. I could see that being a thing. Although historically, if I'm not mistaken, it tends to be in the other order. Government services tend to sync up with what everyone else is doing (my understanding is that the 8 hour day originated in the private union movement and only came to government work later).
tzs 6y ago
If you change the hours instead of the clocks, you either need to have two sets of everything with a time printed on it that you swap between, or you need to print both times on everything and people have to remember which is which. If you are going to have standard/daylight time it is a lot easier to just change the clocks since clocks are designed to be easy to change. For a while this was not true. When digital electronics became cheap and common, designers started putting clocks in everything and so a DST change might involve going through your house having to change dozens of clocks. Before this, we'd typically only have a couple wall clocks in a house, an alarm clock in each bedroom, and our watches, most of which we had to regularly set anyway to keep them on time so DST wasn't much of a hassle. Now we still do have clocks everywhere--I think I counted something like 20 clocks in my house recently--but now most of them are self-setting. I've only got 3 that I actually have to manually change for DST.
- wnoise 6y ago
  > If you are going to have standard/daylight time it is a lot easier to just change the clocks since clocks are designed to be easy to change. Hahaha There have been immeasurable amounts of engineering put into this, and it still doesn't reliably work.

arethuza 6y ago

"I'd sure be annoyed if the sun were still up at 10pm in the summer" Out of interest why would you be annoyed - here in Scotland it's still light at that time in summer and it is glorious - best time of the year.

csydas 6y ago
Similarly, I am in St Petersburg Russia, and white nights, while taking a little to get used to, are very pretty. You have to make a major adjustment though in the form of heavy window drapes ). But since I moved to Russia, I have thoroughly enjoyed no DST, it really is a headache for a lot of things and it's more annoying to work with our colleagues in the US and EU who do respect DST as we have to add just that much more planning. DST is an artifact we don't need anymore.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I'm in Norway. While the sun technically goes down, it just goes barely below the horizon so we just have a few hours of civil twilight and if there are a few clouds, a sunset that lasts for hours until the sun comes back up. I can read outside so long as it isn't too cloudy - and barely need light to do so if it is. It is pretty glorious, though some folks do need to darken their bedroom to sleep well - especially immigrants.
- kevsim 6y ago
  Immigrant in Norway. Can confirm. First few years were tough, but now I don't even bother with curtains. Summers here are the best (provided the weather isn't awful).
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    I was kind of lucky myself - I worked nights and was used to sleeping when light outside. And you are right - summers are pretty wonderful, though I like it when the summers are cool. After 7 years here, I still don't recommend swimming in a pond on a mountaintop. The water is still cold.
6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]