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I have nothing to do with that ecosystem, yet I find the arguments fairly compelling. So "maybe your explanation isn't broad enough." Freedom and chaos are ali

I have nothing to do with that ecosystem, yet I find the arguments fairly compelling. So "maybe your explanation isn't broad enough." Freedom and chaos are aligned; they're correlated; it's not news. Likewise authoritarianism is usually pretty orderly, at least for some definition of order (generally they achieve their own). For example the principle of free speech, and the openness of certain platforms, is what enables lots of entities to expose people to their ideas. Including let's say the FSB, who tend to use it to sow seeds of discord, confusion and disorganization among the populace of their old adversary the US. Whereas Russia's internet is partly sanitized of "foreign ideas," a practice that offends our sense of freedom of speech, but you have to admit that it's very hard to infiltrate and subvert the Russian Federation with those ideas as a result. Things are orderly, again for some definition of order.

yakireev 6y ago
This is completely off-topic, but you either seriously overestimate the amount of censorship in Russian internet (which includes not only Russian citizens, but also Russian speakers elsewhere, of which there are many), or - more likely - seriously underestimate the amount of censorship in popular "global" social networks. Among popular (non-Chinese) communication tools, Facebook is the most censored. It censors based on ethics, politics, commercial interests, it censors both public posts and private messages, and it does not allow anonymity. The level of censorship in, say, VK (which you're probably thinking of) is not even close to this. And yet, so many people perceive Facebook as a "free" place where FSB can sow whatever they want, and want even more censorship there. Yay freedom... Also, if you think that Russian internet is more "orderly" (in any definition of "order") than the "global" English-speaking one - I'd say you're misinformed about that too. It's even more of a mess, to be honest...
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- rdiddly 6y ago
  I believe I'm accurately assessing the situation in America, in that any social networking site is much easier to "get your work published in" than any major (or minor) newspaper in the 20th century. The democratization of information means anyone can have a voice and be heard - including idiots, trolls, and clever organized trolls who turn idiots into useful idiots. (I'm not comparing e.g. Facebook to a theoretical completely open forum as you suggest.) I can't truly speak authoritatively about Russian censorship, as my Russian language skills aren't very good and these are all things I've heard second-hand. But (back to the US) the issues, topics and tactics I'm talking about would hardly even get the attention of a censor in America anyway. You can stir the pot just by saying something like "African-Americans deserve reparations to compensate for slavery." Nobody is going to censor that. But it's poking at a long-time rift or scar in the American body politic and is almost guaranteed to flare up into a flame war. Especially if you have some other username arguing the opposite point, and a few trolls goading people on both sides.

yakireev 6y ago

This is completely off-topic, but you either seriously overestimate the amount of censorship in Russian internet (which includes not only Russian citizens, but also Russian speakers elsewhere, of which there are many), or - more likely - seriously underestimate the amount of censorship in popular "global" social networks. Among popular (non-Chinese) communication tools, Facebook is the most censored. It censors based on ethics, politics, commercial interests, it censors both public posts and private messages, and it does not allow anonymity. The level of censorship in, say, VK (which you're probably thinking of) is not even close to this. And yet, so many people perceive Facebook as a "free" place where FSB can sow whatever they want, and want even more censorship there. Yay freedom... Also, if you think that Russian internet is more "orderly" (in any definition of "order") than the "global" English-speaking one - I'd say you're misinformed about that too. It's even more of a mess, to be honest...

deleted 6y ago
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rdiddly 6y ago
I believe I'm accurately assessing the situation in America, in that any social networking site is much easier to "get your work published in" than any major (or minor) newspaper in the 20th century. The democratization of information means anyone can have a voice and be heard - including idiots, trolls, and clever organized trolls who turn idiots into useful idiots. (I'm not comparing e.g. Facebook to a theoretical completely open forum as you suggest.) I can't truly speak authoritatively about Russian censorship, as my Russian language skills aren't very good and these are all things I've heard second-hand. But (back to the US) the issues, topics and tactics I'm talking about would hardly even get the attention of a censor in America anyway. You can stir the pot just by saying something like "African-Americans deserve reparations to compensate for slavery." Nobody is going to censor that. But it's poking at a long-time rift or scar in the American body politic and is almost guaranteed to flare up into a flame war. Especially if you have some other username arguing the opposite point, and a few trolls goading people on both sides.