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> If you want to stay in Apples walled-garden you have that choice, otherwise, install your own apps. That’s not the only option here — you could also just use

> If you want to stay in Apples walled-garden you have that choice, otherwise, install your own apps. That’s not the only option here — you could also just use an Android phone to begin with. I’m a happy iPhone user and the fact that it is a closed ecosystem is part of the reason why... I’m happy to pay that premium (both in cost and flexibility). I don’t want my phone crashing because some developer pushed out a buggy update and they didn’t want to pay the iOS developer fee.

emsy 6y ago
You can be perfectly happy so long as the app you rely on is available. If Apple decides to axe it (cough Hey cough) you and the developer are at their mercy. It doesn't matter that you could've bought an Android to begin with. The rules are changing while you're holding onto a device and that should not be possible.
- mbreese 6y ago
  I like to play Fortnite with my kids. I hook up an Xbox controller and play on my iPad Pro. One kid is on a Switch, the other on an Xbox. As of yesterday, I can’t play with them. I very much miss that experience. However, I still support Apple’s decision to pull them from the App Store. Why? Because I don’t want there to be another mechanism for in-app purchases on iOS that isn’t subject to parental controls. I love my kids, but there is no way that they should be able to buy anything from an App that I haven’t approved. Note: I’m sure this would never happen with my kids as they know better and we’ve discussed the perils of in-app purchases and avoiding installing games they see in ads. But their accounts are locked down, just the same.
  - emsy 6y ago
    I absolutely agree with Apple's decision to pull the app. However I don't agree that you should be forced to use the App store. If Epic had the choice maybe parents wouldn't let their children play because of the lack of parental control. That would be a good thing, since that's actually market competition at work. As it is now, Epic's model isn't even allowed to fail.
  - defnotashton2 6y ago
    A lot of these types of arguments are just kind of absurd and flat. We are developer the rules are what we make them. Apple can allow other software stores while still having effective parental controls. None of these things are mutually exclusive.
  - p49k 6y ago
    False dichotomy. No one is claiming that Apple shouldn’t be able to provide the option of limiting phones with parental controls to the main App Store if the parents set it up that way.
- nuker 6y ago
  > If Apple decides to axe it (cough Hey cough) you and the developer are at their mercy. Consumers and developers have very different interests. Locked down system is good for consumers, not so much for developers. I'm a consumer, Apple makes its money mostly from consumers, so it makes sense keeping it as it is.
  - emsy 6y ago
    I want to use the app and Apple won’t let me. How is that in my interest? Do you think you will always agree wit Apple‘s rulings? Also the Apps Apple is selling come from developers (and it’s a billion dollar market), so the idea that everything‘s fine and there’s nothing to see here is rather ignorant.
    - nuker 6y ago
      > I want to use the app and Apple won’t let me. How is that in my interest? No problems here, I will just pick another app, there are so many to choose from. And the app will be safe to use, Apple‘s rulings work great for me.
      - emsy 6y ago
        „It works for me so it’s fine“ is a terrible argument.
        nuker 6y ago
        I'll rephrase, "Apple‘s rulings work great for consumers".
        arvinsim 6y ago
        He is a consumer. It doesn't "work great" for him.
        nuker 6y ago
Spivak 6y ago
The fact that iOS is closed doesn’t in practice take away my freedom as a user basically ever. The store is overflowing with apps, the prices are comparable to the Play Store and there’s nothing but minor functionality differences between Android and iOS. The fact that the App Store is closed really takes away freedom from developers and publishers who have no choice to play ball with Apple and who I am always happy are getting constantly bullied into not being shitty to their users. It really is pretty amazing that Apple gets to take 30% off the top for the privilege, Apple wouldn’t have any real leverage if companies didn’t mistreat users to the point where Apple’s garden is a panacea.

emsy 6y ago

You can be perfectly happy so long as the app you rely on is available. If Apple decides to axe it (cough Hey cough) you and the developer are at their mercy. It doesn't matter that you could've bought an Android to begin with. The rules are changing while you're holding onto a device and that should not be possible.

mbreese 6y ago
I like to play Fortnite with my kids. I hook up an Xbox controller and play on my iPad Pro. One kid is on a Switch, the other on an Xbox. As of yesterday, I can’t play with them. I very much miss that experience. However, I still support Apple’s decision to pull them from the App Store. Why? Because I don’t want there to be another mechanism for in-app purchases on iOS that isn’t subject to parental controls. I love my kids, but there is no way that they should be able to buy anything from an App that I haven’t approved. Note: I’m sure this would never happen with my kids as they know better and we’ve discussed the perils of in-app purchases and avoiding installing games they see in ads. But their accounts are locked down, just the same.
- emsy 6y ago
  I absolutely agree with Apple's decision to pull the app. However I don't agree that you should be forced to use the App store. If Epic had the choice maybe parents wouldn't let their children play because of the lack of parental control. That would be a good thing, since that's actually market competition at work. As it is now, Epic's model isn't even allowed to fail.
- defnotashton2 6y ago
  A lot of these types of arguments are just kind of absurd and flat. We are developer the rules are what we make them. Apple can allow other software stores while still having effective parental controls. None of these things are mutually exclusive.
- p49k 6y ago
  False dichotomy. No one is claiming that Apple shouldn’t be able to provide the option of limiting phones with parental controls to the main App Store if the parents set it up that way.
nuker 6y ago
> If Apple decides to axe it (cough Hey cough) you and the developer are at their mercy. Consumers and developers have very different interests. Locked down system is good for consumers, not so much for developers. I'm a consumer, Apple makes its money mostly from consumers, so it makes sense keeping it as it is.
- emsy 6y ago
  I want to use the app and Apple won’t let me. How is that in my interest? Do you think you will always agree wit Apple‘s rulings? Also the Apps Apple is selling come from developers (and it’s a billion dollar market), so the idea that everything‘s fine and there’s nothing to see here is rather ignorant.
  - nuker 6y ago
    > I want to use the app and Apple won’t let me. How is that in my interest? No problems here, I will just pick another app, there are so many to choose from. And the app will be safe to use, Apple‘s rulings work great for me.
    - emsy 6y ago
      „It works for me so it’s fine“ is a terrible argument.
      - nuker 6y ago
        I'll rephrase, "Apple‘s rulings work great for consumers".
        arvinsim 6y ago
        He is a consumer. It doesn't "work great" for him.
        nuker 6y ago

Spivak 6y ago

The fact that iOS is closed doesn’t in practice take away my freedom as a user basically ever. The store is overflowing with apps, the prices are comparable to the Play Store and there’s nothing but minor functionality differences between Android and iOS. The fact that the App Store is closed really takes away freedom from developers and publishers who have no choice to play ball with Apple and who I am always happy are getting constantly bullied into not being shitty to their users. It really is pretty amazing that Apple gets to take 30% off the top for the privilege, Apple wouldn’t have any real leverage if companies didn’t mistreat users to the point where Apple’s garden is a panacea.