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> basically unusable for everyday transactions Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address thi

> basically unusable for everyday transactions Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? > the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen?

trthomps 6y ago
The banking system deals with it by just reversing the transaction so the end user of the system, the consumer, doesn't care. This ends up screwing the merchant most of the time, causing the price to be paid by higher prices, but people don't seem to care. And most people don't store value in currency long term, they typically store value in assets such as precious metals, securities, or real estate. Cash has a purpose of exchanging value in the modern economy, nothing more. It is manipulated by design to bring stability to the economy to allow for a more favorable business environment. I think crypto has a place in the world... but it's not as a general purpose currency. Using anything but a fiat currency for commerce is way too unstable for long term sustainability.
cortesoft 6y ago
> Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen? No, because my credit card company gives me my money back when there is fraud. Crypto promoters always paint the irreversibility of blockchains as a feature, but it always seems like a risk to me.
- xur17 6y ago
  It's just a different approach with different tradeoffs. Credit cards push the fraud risk and fees on the merchant. Crypto can push it to the user (and in the process reduce the fees incurred). I would be happy to have a way to pay merchants I trust online with and remove the ability to reverse the charge if I was financially incentivized to do this (with the money the merchant saves on fees).
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    The ability to reverse a charge isn't just about helping you if you are cheated by a merchant, though. It is also about if your credentials are compromised and used by someone else. Sure, you might be happy to give up your ability to get a chargebacks against a particular merchant.... but what about against a thief?
    - xur17 6y ago
      It's a tradeoff - in a number of cases, I would be willing to accept that risk. I already do with cash.
      - cortesoft 6y ago
        Sure, but the more articles like this I read about crypto, the more it sounds like carrying cash at 3am in the worst part of town....
- herbst 6y ago
  Mine doesnt. I can only block my card and sue. No chargebacks possible. For me any crypto is basically just as good, yet even more secure.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Or get a different credit card?
- sukilot 6y ago
  What about when someone creates a loan in your name or steals your tax refund or your real estate down payment?
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    You can remedy all of those things in the current system.
xg15 6y ago
> Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? Wait. If everyday transactions are not the use-case, then (excluding speculation and money laundering), what exactly is it?
- Sargos 6y ago
  There's finance stuff which is mostly large organization to large organization. Everything from escrow, loans invoices, to things like RFPs and supply chain management. Then there's the NFT/Unique items section which is for gaming (God's Unchained/Magic the Gathering where each card is owned digitally and can be traded freely with others or used as collateral for a loan), media (You own a movie but can use it on any service), and art (Tokenized art is a big craze right now). The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. There's a lot of cool stuff here. There's more but payments are really just a tiny use case of crypto. The big stuff like decentralized applications which might replace Google and Facebook with privacy preserving neutral platforms built for everyone to use.
  - Igelau 6y ago
    Except you don't need a cryptocurrency to have decentralized applications or neutral platforms.
  - xg15 6y ago
    > The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. Ok, dumb question: How would such a decentralised government keep itself from being overrun by, say, the Russia troll army, or any other actor with enough resources to take over a majority of it?
    - Sargos 6y ago
      Identity is a huge topic itself with lots of projects doing fundamental research and experiments but essentially if it's a traditional physical government then it would work like it does today where you would use your government secured ID to vote. Not much would change. If it's a digital government then it would probably be using an identity based on built up history of actions and financial settlements and connections to other highly verified accounts. Ethereum has a project called POAP (Proof of Attendance Protocol) which is a way of identifying that a real person attended a specific event or performed some important action. These POAP badges can't be faked and are already being used for things like being able to vote on certain dev polls if you've attended a Devcon.

trthomps 6y ago

The banking system deals with it by just reversing the transaction so the end user of the system, the consumer, doesn't care. This ends up screwing the merchant most of the time, causing the price to be paid by higher prices, but people don't seem to care. And most people don't store value in currency long term, they typically store value in assets such as precious metals, securities, or real estate. Cash has a purpose of exchanging value in the modern economy, nothing more. It is manipulated by design to bring stability to the economy to allow for a more favorable business environment. I think crypto has a place in the world... but it's not as a general purpose currency. Using anything but a fiat currency for commerce is way too unstable for long term sustainability.

cortesoft 6y ago

> Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen? No, because my credit card company gives me my money back when there is fraud. Crypto promoters always paint the irreversibility of blockchains as a feature, but it always seems like a risk to me.

xur17 6y ago
It's just a different approach with different tradeoffs. Credit cards push the fraud risk and fees on the merchant. Crypto can push it to the user (and in the process reduce the fees incurred). I would be happy to have a way to pay merchants I trust online with and remove the ability to reverse the charge if I was financially incentivized to do this (with the money the merchant saves on fees).
- cortesoft 6y ago
  The ability to reverse a charge isn't just about helping you if you are cheated by a merchant, though. It is also about if your credentials are compromised and used by someone else. Sure, you might be happy to give up your ability to get a chargebacks against a particular merchant.... but what about against a thief?
  - xur17 6y ago
    It's a tradeoff - in a number of cases, I would be willing to accept that risk. I already do with cash.
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      Sure, but the more articles like this I read about crypto, the more it sounds like carrying cash at 3am in the worst part of town....
herbst 6y ago
Mine doesnt. I can only block my card and sue. No chargebacks possible. For me any crypto is basically just as good, yet even more secure.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Or get a different credit card?
sukilot 6y ago
What about when someone creates a loan in your name or steals your tax refund or your real estate down payment?
- cortesoft 6y ago
  You can remedy all of those things in the current system.

xg15 6y ago

> Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? Wait. If everyday transactions are not the use-case, then (excluding speculation and money laundering), what exactly is it?

Sargos 6y ago
There's finance stuff which is mostly large organization to large organization. Everything from escrow, loans invoices, to things like RFPs and supply chain management. Then there's the NFT/Unique items section which is for gaming (God's Unchained/Magic the Gathering where each card is owned digitally and can be traded freely with others or used as collateral for a loan), media (You own a movie but can use it on any service), and art (Tokenized art is a big craze right now). The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. There's a lot of cool stuff here. There's more but payments are really just a tiny use case of crypto. The big stuff like decentralized applications which might replace Google and Facebook with privacy preserving neutral platforms built for everyone to use.
- Igelau 6y ago
  Except you don't need a cryptocurrency to have decentralized applications or neutral platforms.
- xg15 6y ago
  > The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. Ok, dumb question: How would such a decentralised government keep itself from being overrun by, say, the Russia troll army, or any other actor with enough resources to take over a majority of it?
  - Sargos 6y ago
    Identity is a huge topic itself with lots of projects doing fundamental research and experiments but essentially if it's a traditional physical government then it would work like it does today where you would use your government secured ID to vote. Not much would change. If it's a digital government then it would probably be using an identity based on built up history of actions and financial settlements and connections to other highly verified accounts. Ethereum has a project called POAP (Proof of Attendance Protocol) which is a way of identifying that a real person attended a specific event or performed some important action. These POAP badges can't be faked and are already being used for things like being able to vote on certain dev polls if you've attended a Devcon.