4 ms·

For comparison purposes, it's useful to think of things like retirement contributions and healthcare premiums as taxes, even if they're not formally taxes. Ther

by notJim 6y ago

For comparison purposes, it's useful to think of things like retirement contributions and healthcare premiums as taxes, even if they're not formally taxes. There is an article comparing this across countries that argues that if you take this view, US taxes are actually pretty high, because our health insurance is so expensive. https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/04/08/us-workers-are-highly-taxed-when-you-count-health-premiums/ https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/04/08/us-workers-a...

BeetleB 6y ago
For national financial comparisons - sure. The real difference, of course, is that taxes will ensure you're covered even if you're low income.
- bhupy 6y ago
  In the US, you're already covered if you're low income, through Medicaid and ACA subsidies, that's part of where the current taxes go. It's certainly debatable if the existing programs are optimally structured.
  - CraigJPerry 6y ago
    Do you get the same level of cover when you’re low income?
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Ironically, you get some of the best coverage when you're low income, since Medicaid is so generous.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    > In the US, you're already covered if you're low income, through Medicaid and ACA subsidies, that's part of where the current taxes go Talking to low income folks, it's not the same as in other countries. They still have financial stress because of medical concerns. Medicaid experience differs greatly depending on the state you're in. And how it compares with people who have the means to buy insurance also varies quite a bit.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      In general, Medicaid is one of the more generous health insurance plans available in the US. The maximum nominal deductible is $3, and the maximum nominal copay for managed care is $4. For drugs, it’s around the same: $4 for preferred drugs and $8 for non-preferred drugs. There’s certainly variation in who can qualify, per State; some States are more generous than others. It’s debatable whether it makes sense to even consider the US as a whole, since it’s really a heterogenous collection of 50 self-governing sub-cultures. The Canadian healthcare system for eg is also provincial, with the Federal government providing minority financial support. It’s actually more Province-driven than Medicaid is State-driven, today.
- notJim 6y ago
  You can also make the taxes progressive, so wealthier pay more. I'm also not sure if this looks at total costs or only premiums. People don't go bankrupt or have surprise bills [1] for medical reasons in other countries the way they do here. [1]: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-5-americans-get-hit-with-a-2000-surprise-medical-bill-after-elective-surgery-study-says-2020-02-12 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-5-americans-get-hit-w...
  - IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
    While that may be true, its also true that people from all over the world come and pay airfare, stay, and tens of thousands of dollars to get procedures done here. For example, Canadians going to https://surgerycenterok.com/ https://surgerycenterok.com/ Here is another fact. The above has had transparency in prices since it was founded in 1990 Guess what also has not changed: the price that they charge for every single procedure since they were founded. In fact they technically charge less now because some procedures include additional services that were originally not part of the package. So why is it that 1 clinic does not need to change pricing in 30 years, while everything else is increasing at 5-10% per year? Hint: you dont have to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Its possible to have a system that is not going to bankrupt you and also at the same time not make you wait for 3 years for something you need today

by notJim 6y ago

BeetleB 6y ago

For national financial comparisons - sure. The real difference, of course, is that taxes will ensure you're covered even if you're low income.

bhupy 6y ago
In the US, you're already covered if you're low income, through Medicaid and ACA subsidies, that's part of where the current taxes go. It's certainly debatable if the existing programs are optimally structured.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  Do you get the same level of cover when you’re low income?
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Ironically, you get some of the best coverage when you're low income, since Medicaid is so generous.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > In the US, you're already covered if you're low income, through Medicaid and ACA subsidies, that's part of where the current taxes go Talking to low income folks, it's not the same as in other countries. They still have financial stress because of medical concerns. Medicaid experience differs greatly depending on the state you're in. And how it compares with people who have the means to buy insurance also varies quite a bit.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    In general, Medicaid is one of the more generous health insurance plans available in the US. The maximum nominal deductible is $3, and the maximum nominal copay for managed care is $4. For drugs, it’s around the same: $4 for preferred drugs and $8 for non-preferred drugs. There’s certainly variation in who can qualify, per State; some States are more generous than others. It’s debatable whether it makes sense to even consider the US as a whole, since it’s really a heterogenous collection of 50 self-governing sub-cultures. The Canadian healthcare system for eg is also provincial, with the Federal government providing minority financial support. It’s actually more Province-driven than Medicaid is State-driven, today.
notJim 6y ago
You can also make the taxes progressive, so wealthier pay more. I'm also not sure if this looks at total costs or only premiums. People don't go bankrupt or have surprise bills [1] for medical reasons in other countries the way they do here. [1]: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-5-americans-get-hit-with-a-2000-surprise-medical-bill-after-elective-surgery-study-says-2020-02-12 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-in-5-americans-get-hit-w...
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  While that may be true, its also true that people from all over the world come and pay airfare, stay, and tens of thousands of dollars to get procedures done here. For example, Canadians going to https://surgerycenterok.com/ https://surgerycenterok.com/ Here is another fact. The above has had transparency in prices since it was founded in 1990 Guess what also has not changed: the price that they charge for every single procedure since they were founded. In fact they technically charge less now because some procedures include additional services that were originally not part of the package. So why is it that 1 clinic does not need to change pricing in 30 years, while everything else is increasing at 5-10% per year? Hint: you dont have to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Its possible to have a system that is not going to bankrupt you and also at the same time not make you wait for 3 years for something you need today