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Its also fascinating to note that US public spending on healthcare is greater than the UK, both in terms of absolute numbers and as share of GDP [0]. [0]. http

by tyoma 6y ago

Its also fascinating to note that US public spending on healthcare is greater than the UK, both in terms of absolute numbers and as share of GDP [0]. [0]. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42950587 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42950587

bhupy 6y ago
Just the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance costs the Federal government $273 billion per year: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-does-tax-exclusion-employer-sponsored-health-insurance-work https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-does-tax-e... The US healthcare system is a Rube Goldberg machine.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Tax deductions are not costs. They are shifts in weighting between taxpayers.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    What? Tax deductions absolutely are costs. They are represented as expenditures on the Federal budget. The deduction isn’t a default, it’s an affirmative benefit by the Federal government, and one that causes a heavy market distortion.
nicoffeine 6y ago
The not-so-secret reason the business community is fighting single payer in the US is because 18-20% of our economy depends on the healthcare industry. A good portion of that is paper shuffling, marketing, accounting, and related middle/upper management -- they would serve no purpose in a system where you show up with identification, prove you're a citizen, and then get healthcare. So single payer means maybe 8-10% of the country is out of a job. That's why Medicare/Medicaid is cheaper per person even though they serve the poor and elderly.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if the way to make changes in these sorts of industries (with a powerful rent seeker that prevents change... e.g. health insurance, tax prep, etc) is to bite the bullet and just agree to bribe them... say, "we are winding down private insurance... we will pay you guys what your profit has been each year, diminishing each year, for the next 10 years. You can take that money and try another industry." It might seem expensive and wasteful, but it might be better than the status quo.
  - SL61 6y ago
    Not trying to draw too much of a comparison here, but Britain did this when they formally abolished slavery. It's still very controversial today, but it did thwart the opposition to abolition among Parliament's pro-slavery lobby and plantation owners, particularly in the Caribbean. Paying off health insurers for years' worth of profits would be very expensive, but on the flip side I doubt it would be as unpopular as the slavery payments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    I believe that's called a transition period and we saw how it worked with Obama care. We could also drag the obstructionist leeches into the capital and roast them like Jim gaffigan just roasted Karen. When someone's abusing an entire country you don't pay them to stop, you throw them in jail. People are dying are dying by the truckload and we care about
    - newen 6y ago
      Or just roast them considering the number of people that are dying every year due to their greed.
  - bluquark 6y ago
    That's how Japan abolished the samurai. The Meiji emperor promised very generous pensions to all samurai if they turned in their swords and retired. A few years later, there was a budget crisis and the government cut the pension to a fraction of what was agreed on. But the ex-samurai were too demobilized to overthrow it by then.

by tyoma 6y ago

bhupy 6y ago

Just the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance costs the Federal government $273 billion per year: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-does-tax-exclusion-employer-sponsored-health-insurance-work https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-does-tax-e... The US healthcare system is a Rube Goldberg machine.

sukilot 6y ago
Tax deductions are not costs. They are shifts in weighting between taxpayers.
- bhupy 6y ago
  What? Tax deductions absolutely are costs. They are represented as expenditures on the Federal budget. The deduction isn’t a default, it’s an affirmative benefit by the Federal government, and one that causes a heavy market distortion.

nicoffeine 6y ago

The not-so-secret reason the business community is fighting single payer in the US is because 18-20% of our economy depends on the healthcare industry. A good portion of that is paper shuffling, marketing, accounting, and related middle/upper management -- they would serve no purpose in a system where you show up with identification, prove you're a citizen, and then get healthcare. So single payer means maybe 8-10% of the country is out of a job. That's why Medicare/Medicaid is cheaper per person even though they serve the poor and elderly.

cortesoft 6y ago
Sometimes I wonder if the way to make changes in these sorts of industries (with a powerful rent seeker that prevents change... e.g. health insurance, tax prep, etc) is to bite the bullet and just agree to bribe them... say, "we are winding down private insurance... we will pay you guys what your profit has been each year, diminishing each year, for the next 10 years. You can take that money and try another industry." It might seem expensive and wasteful, but it might be better than the status quo.
- SL61 6y ago
  Not trying to draw too much of a comparison here, but Britain did this when they formally abolished slavery. It's still very controversial today, but it did thwart the opposition to abolition among Parliament's pro-slavery lobby and plantation owners, particularly in the Caribbean. Paying off health insurers for years' worth of profits would be very expensive, but on the flip side I doubt it would be as unpopular as the slavery payments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  I believe that's called a transition period and we saw how it worked with Obama care. We could also drag the obstructionist leeches into the capital and roast them like Jim gaffigan just roasted Karen. When someone's abusing an entire country you don't pay them to stop, you throw them in jail. People are dying are dying by the truckload and we care about
  - newen 6y ago
    Or just roast them considering the number of people that are dying every year due to their greed.
- bluquark 6y ago
  That's how Japan abolished the samurai. The Meiji emperor promised very generous pensions to all samurai if they turned in their swords and retired. A few years later, there was a budget crisis and the government cut the pension to a fraction of what was agreed on. But the ex-samurai were too demobilized to overthrow it by then.