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As an outsider looking in, though, it seems that banks are getting better at this, while crypto is getting worse. There's a bajillion fintechs helping the bank

As an outsider looking in, though, it seems that banks are getting better at this, while crypto is getting worse. There's a bajillion fintechs helping the banks sort out their UI issues and make it friendlier/better. Bitcoin is still basically unusable for everyday transactions, and the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure. As TFA says, the hazards for normal folks playing in this pool are getting worse. If the miners are frontrunning your transaction every time you want to get paid, what's the point?

xur17 6y ago
The fundamental problem of ownership still isn't (and won't be) solved by the existing banking system. Money that you actually own, that you can do whatever you want with (for better or worse).
- Barrin92 6y ago
  this isn't a fundamental problem for anyone who isn't caught up in this weird ideologically libertarian crypto cult. Virtually nobody wants to 'actually own' money or do whatever they want with it, they want to buy groceries, pay rent, or put it in their bank account. If people wanted to actually own stuff they'd buy pinephones instead of samsung galaxies.
  - mlcrypto 6y ago
    Well until a few centuries ago nobody wanted to have electricity sent into their houses. The masses don't care until it becomes part of life. It's always the quirky pioneers that care first.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
panarky 6y ago
> basically unusable for everyday transactions Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? > the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen?
- trthomps 6y ago
  The banking system deals with it by just reversing the transaction so the end user of the system, the consumer, doesn't care. This ends up screwing the merchant most of the time, causing the price to be paid by higher prices, but people don't seem to care. And most people don't store value in currency long term, they typically store value in assets such as precious metals, securities, or real estate. Cash has a purpose of exchanging value in the modern economy, nothing more. It is manipulated by design to bring stability to the economy to allow for a more favorable business environment. I think crypto has a place in the world... but it's not as a general purpose currency. Using anything but a fiat currency for commerce is way too unstable for long term sustainability.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  > Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen? No, because my credit card company gives me my money back when there is fraud. Crypto promoters always paint the irreversibility of blockchains as a feature, but it always seems like a risk to me.
  - xur17 6y ago
    It's just a different approach with different tradeoffs. Credit cards push the fraud risk and fees on the merchant. Crypto can push it to the user (and in the process reduce the fees incurred). I would be happy to have a way to pay merchants I trust online with and remove the ability to reverse the charge if I was financially incentivized to do this (with the money the merchant saves on fees).
jkepler 6y ago
> the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless theft of money through central banks' intentionally inflating the money supply increase your faith that government fiat is secure? Hacks against centralized wallet providers don't count as security weaknesses in decentralized protocols such as bitcoin. Perhaps the current danger with Ethereum-based DeFi is that its far too centralized, and typically (but not necessarily) contracts deployed on it are also far to centralized in their design, governance, and security reviews before deployment.
herbst 6y ago
Have you ever used a browser wallet? I have yet to see a banking ui that is even close as fast and comfortable as metamask is. And i regularly try more modern banks.

xur17 6y ago

The fundamental problem of ownership still isn't (and won't be) solved by the existing banking system. Money that you actually own, that you can do whatever you want with (for better or worse).

Barrin92 6y ago
this isn't a fundamental problem for anyone who isn't caught up in this weird ideologically libertarian crypto cult. Virtually nobody wants to 'actually own' money or do whatever they want with it, they want to buy groceries, pay rent, or put it in their bank account. If people wanted to actually own stuff they'd buy pinephones instead of samsung galaxies.
- mlcrypto 6y ago
  Well until a few centuries ago nobody wanted to have electricity sent into their houses. The masses don't care until it becomes part of life. It's always the quirky pioneers that care first.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

panarky 6y ago

> basically unusable for everyday transactions Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? > the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen?

trthomps 6y ago
The banking system deals with it by just reversing the transaction so the end user of the system, the consumer, doesn't care. This ends up screwing the merchant most of the time, causing the price to be paid by higher prices, but people don't seem to care. And most people don't store value in currency long term, they typically store value in assets such as precious metals, securities, or real estate. Cash has a purpose of exchanging value in the modern economy, nothing more. It is manipulated by design to bring stability to the economy to allow for a more favorable business environment. I think crypto has a place in the world... but it's not as a general purpose currency. Using anything but a fiat currency for commerce is way too unstable for long term sustainability.
cortesoft 6y ago
> Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen? No, because my credit card company gives me my money back when there is fraud. Crypto promoters always paint the irreversibility of blockchains as a feature, but it always seems like a risk to me.
- xur17 6y ago
  It's just a different approach with different tradeoffs. Credit cards push the fraud risk and fees on the merchant. Crypto can push it to the user (and in the process reduce the fees incurred). I would be happy to have a way to pay merchants I trust online with and remove the ability to reverse the charge if I was financially incentivized to do this (with the money the merchant saves on fees).

jkepler 6y ago

> the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless theft of money through central banks' intentionally inflating the money supply increase your faith that government fiat is secure? Hacks against centralized wallet providers don't count as security weaknesses in decentralized protocols such as bitcoin. Perhaps the current danger with Ethereum-based DeFi is that its far too centralized, and typically (but not necessarily) contracts deployed on it are also far to centralized in their design, governance, and security reviews before deployment.

herbst 6y ago

Have you ever used a browser wallet? I have yet to see a banking ui that is even close as fast and comfortable as metamask is. And i regularly try more modern banks.