5 ms·

A good rule of thumb when dismissing some new technology is to ask, "what previous technologies would I have dismissed for the same reasons?" And if those techn

by tlb 6y ago

A good rule of thumb when dismissing some new technology is to ask, "what previous technologies would I have dismissed for the same reasons?" And if those technologies became successful, try to learn from the mistake. In this case, clothes washing machines and vacuum cleaners seem to fit your thesis.

function_seven 6y ago
And the Roomba fits this rule of thumb again by replacing the vacuum cleaner (which replaced, what, taking rugs outside and beating them with sticks?) On a tangent: How was wall-to-wall carpeting cleaned before the invention of the Hoover? Did it just not exist before then? Or it just collected dirt until it was replaced?
- melling 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_sweeper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_sweeper
  - function_seven 6y ago
    Oof. We had one of these growing up, so I know about them. Just didn't remember it when I replied. Still useful for collecting crumbs around restaurant tables.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Carpet was for the rich. Normal people had much cheaper hardwood floors which were cleaned with a broom. The rich had servants, though I'm not sure what they did to clean (I think take it all outside)
slfnflctd 6y ago
Indeed. A guy named Hans Rosling did a Ted talk about 10 years ago arguing that the washing machine had one of the biggest impacts of any invention from the Industrial Revolution. It's worth looking up if you have 10 minutes to burn, he makes a good case.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  It's a strong argument for a belief I currently have, in what I think is essentially "technological determinism". I sum it up like this: the shape of human societies are essentially determined by economic landscape (that, I would hope, is an obvious point). Scientific and technological progress is what reshapes the economic landscape. Therefore, culture is downstream from sci/tech. Washing machines freeing enormous amount of time for people (particularly mothers, who could use that time to e.g. read books to children or educate themselves) are one example. The other I like is the Reformation: why did Martin Luther succeed where previous attempts at reforming the Church have failed? Because the newly invented printing press allowed for the theses to spread across the Old World much faster than the Church could control it.
  - xtian 6y ago
    That's just historical materialism, FYI.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Looking at Wikipedia, this, technological determinism and economical determinism are related concepts (with the same names appearing in articles about them). I'll need to look into getting my taxonomy straight, but my current view is mostly contained in the explanation I gave in the comment above: inventions shape the landscape of the economy, and ideas/culture are like water flowing in that landscape (and perhaps slowly eroding it).
      - xtian 6y ago
        Right, historical materialism doesn't conflict with any of that, but it extends its analysis to the power structures that arise in society as a result of the material economic conditions.
    - tuatoru 6y ago
      An example of beliefs affecting technology is the coal industry's wildly successful astroturfing campaign against nuclear power in the 1960s and 1970s. Nuclear power was an existential threat to coal mining but was derailed almost completely by manipulating people's beliefs.

by tlb 6y ago

function_seven 6y ago

And the Roomba fits this rule of thumb again by replacing the vacuum cleaner (which replaced, what, taking rugs outside and beating them with sticks?) On a tangent: How was wall-to-wall carpeting cleaned before the invention of the Hoover? Did it just not exist before then? Or it just collected dirt until it was replaced?

melling 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_sweeper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_sweeper
- function_seven 6y ago
  Oof. We had one of these growing up, so I know about them. Just didn't remember it when I replied. Still useful for collecting crumbs around restaurant tables.
bluGill 6y ago
Carpet was for the rich. Normal people had much cheaper hardwood floors which were cleaned with a broom. The rich had servants, though I'm not sure what they did to clean (I think take it all outside)

slfnflctd 6y ago

Indeed. A guy named Hans Rosling did a Ted talk about 10 years ago arguing that the washing machine had one of the biggest impacts of any invention from the Industrial Revolution. It's worth looking up if you have 10 minutes to burn, he makes a good case.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
It's a strong argument for a belief I currently have, in what I think is essentially "technological determinism". I sum it up like this: the shape of human societies are essentially determined by economic landscape (that, I would hope, is an obvious point). Scientific and technological progress is what reshapes the economic landscape. Therefore, culture is downstream from sci/tech. Washing machines freeing enormous amount of time for people (particularly mothers, who could use that time to e.g. read books to children or educate themselves) are one example. The other I like is the Reformation: why did Martin Luther succeed where previous attempts at reforming the Church have failed? Because the newly invented printing press allowed for the theses to spread across the Old World much faster than the Church could control it.
- xtian 6y ago
  That's just historical materialism, FYI.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Looking at Wikipedia, this, technological determinism and economical determinism are related concepts (with the same names appearing in articles about them). I'll need to look into getting my taxonomy straight, but my current view is mostly contained in the explanation I gave in the comment above: inventions shape the landscape of the economy, and ideas/culture are like water flowing in that landscape (and perhaps slowly eroding it).
    - xtian 6y ago
      Right, historical materialism doesn't conflict with any of that, but it extends its analysis to the power structures that arise in society as a result of the material economic conditions.
  - tuatoru 6y ago
    An example of beliefs affecting technology is the coal industry's wildly successful astroturfing campaign against nuclear power in the 1960s and 1970s. Nuclear power was an existential threat to coal mining but was derailed almost completely by manipulating people's beliefs.