4 ms·

Have you been poor and middle class? Because this description doesn't match my personal experience at all. Most of my adult life I was poor. I had a wife and c

Have you been poor and middle class? Because this description doesn't match my personal experience at all. Most of my adult life I was poor. I had a wife and child. I worked as a customer service rep for a well-known cellular provider. I made just over ~20K and my wife didn't work. It would have been awesome to make more money, but I could leave my job at the office and my free time was 100% my own. I was carefree. Later I decided I needed to keep up. I mean, I'd always been ambitious but I didn't know how to make myself actually do stuff. I figured that out, became a developer. Now, I make by far the most I've ever made, well over 100K. And I can't leave my work at home. And my company is constantly struggling to make ends meet and I'm a critical piece in making sure that happens from payroll to payroll so people don't lose their jobs and so I don't lose my job. And that's why I get paid what I do. But the stress is incredible. I often wonder what the point is. I work >8 hours every day, because I can work from home. And people say, you should be happy you have a job! I remember being happy not having a job. A bunch of people I know don't have jobs but have been making a really nice income off unemployment and get to do whatever they want all day. A family member I know who tells me this is on disability (the outcome of lifestyle decisions very much under her control) and owns a house and goes on vacations every month or two. She must be a wizard with money, but still. Figuring out how to force myself to produce, every day, all day, didn't make me happier. The reason I wasn't producing is because I do not want to produce all day, every day. It sucks. The machine incentivizes me to. The machine requires it. If you want to be middle class, you have to do what the machine tells you. For a very large fraction of the population, I'm guessing doing what the machine tells you doesn't make them happy so they never quite get the hang of it and stay poor. The happiest and most stress free times in my life were being poor. Of course, it'd be nice to have more money too. But you only get that from bowing to the machine or making other people who are bowing to the machine give it to you, which is an extra layer of evil.

craftinator 6y ago
> I made just over ~20K and my wife didn't work. > I was carefree. These two statements are inconsistent. As someone who's lived a few years at earning ~20K, I can say that when 70% of your income goes to rent/mortgage, and 30% split between automotive/basic necessities, you are never carefree. Your always one mistake, one mishap, one unlucky event away from being homeless and destitute. When you can't celebrate any event, any birthday, any Christmas or holiday, can't engage in any activity that costs any amount money, and can't save anything? Every moment you spend planning and worrying to try to keep your head above water. Not sure how you can be carefree while you're constantly at the edge of losing everything you have and the ability to get it back.
- micah94 6y ago
  I think he meant carefree as a state of mind. On the edge of losing everything but not worrying about it.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    I don't understand that point of view. Being homeless is awful; it will kill you, after years of suffering from hunger, sores, achy joints, dysentery, loneliness, etc. And once you are homeless, it takes a huge stroke of luck, and a massive amount of work to capitalize on that luck, to pull yourself out of homeless, and back onto the brink of being homeless again. Where you'll most likely stay, because you haven't built up wealth or savings, and haven't been developing yourself along a career path that will be profitable to do so.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    I also don't understand how one can be in a carefree state of mind while being poor (choosing not to worry about loosing everything), but not be able to attain that mental state while being wealthy (choosing not to worry about losing a negligible amount). Is the relationship such that the more there is to lose, the easier it is to be unaffected by worry?
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    ellyagg's post makes no sense even in this context. Not worried about not being able to feed one's family when making $20k per year, but worried about your employer and colleague's when making $100k per year? There is nowhere in the US where $20k per year will give you security of any type (food, water, shelter, healthcare, schooling, etc) to provide for your family, not to mention a $20k per year job is likelier to have no ability to move up in any significant way.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      They didn't say what year it was, nor where, nor before vs after tax. $20k/yr is definitely enough for some lifestyles in some places, especially in the past. I've lived on less.

craftinator 6y ago

> I made just over ~20K and my wife didn't work. > I was carefree. These two statements are inconsistent. As someone who's lived a few years at earning ~20K, I can say that when 70% of your income goes to rent/mortgage, and 30% split between automotive/basic necessities, you are never carefree. Your always one mistake, one mishap, one unlucky event away from being homeless and destitute. When you can't celebrate any event, any birthday, any Christmas or holiday, can't engage in any activity that costs any amount money, and can't save anything? Every moment you spend planning and worrying to try to keep your head above water. Not sure how you can be carefree while you're constantly at the edge of losing everything you have and the ability to get it back.

micah94 6y ago
I think he meant carefree as a state of mind. On the edge of losing everything but not worrying about it.
- craftinator 6y ago
  I don't understand that point of view. Being homeless is awful; it will kill you, after years of suffering from hunger, sores, achy joints, dysentery, loneliness, etc. And once you are homeless, it takes a huge stroke of luck, and a massive amount of work to capitalize on that luck, to pull yourself out of homeless, and back onto the brink of being homeless again. Where you'll most likely stay, because you haven't built up wealth or savings, and haven't been developing yourself along a career path that will be profitable to do so.
- craftinator 6y ago
  I also don't understand how one can be in a carefree state of mind while being poor (choosing not to worry about loosing everything), but not be able to attain that mental state while being wealthy (choosing not to worry about losing a negligible amount). Is the relationship such that the more there is to lose, the easier it is to be unaffected by worry?
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  ellyagg's post makes no sense even in this context. Not worried about not being able to feed one's family when making $20k per year, but worried about your employer and colleague's when making $100k per year? There is nowhere in the US where $20k per year will give you security of any type (food, water, shelter, healthcare, schooling, etc) to provide for your family, not to mention a $20k per year job is likelier to have no ability to move up in any significant way.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    They didn't say what year it was, nor where, nor before vs after tax. $20k/yr is definitely enough for some lifestyles in some places, especially in the past. I've lived on less.