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China’s Dangerous Taiwan Temptation

15 points by natcombs 6y ago

Synaesthesia 6y ago
There’s quite a difference between what Japan tried to do in WW2 and China reclaiming territory that was stolen from it by colonial powers. The US is also militarily supreme and acting provocatively. Nobody wants a conflict between superpowers.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Taiwan was not stolen from China by colonial powers. You might have a point on Hong Kong, but not on Taiwan.
  - bigpumpkin 6y ago
    Taiwan was ceded from China to Japan, becoming Japan's first overseas colony, as a result of the first Sino-Japanese war. [1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Japanese_rule?oldformat=true https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Japanese_rule?old...
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      That's not why it's independent now. It's independent because after the war, it went back to the government of China, which was the Koumintang. When they lost the Chinese Civil War, they retreated to Taiwan. Hence their claim to still be the legitimate government of the mainland.
    - CogitoCogito 6y ago
      This is certainly true, but it's also true that Chinese colonized Taiwan as well. Taiwan has had a long history of outsiders coming in and taking over. At least today Taiwan's current inhabitants are in control of their own country, but unfortunately China wants to try to go in again. It seems Taiwan can never be left in peace.
- chillacy 6y ago
  "Reclaiming territory" is kind of a bullshit excuse though. I that actually made for moral justification, then just about everyone should be conquering each other right now. For instance, other people could reason that the current government in China is illegitimate and the Republic of China is currently exiled in Taiwan. If Taiwan were to annex China (hard to believe now but just for a thought experiment) then this would be "reclaiming territory". I also once heard a (very racist) Japanese man explain how Japan was the true inheritor of the Ming dynasty's traditions and so invading China was just "re-claiming territory" that was stolen by manchurians. I could go on but these are just narratives used to justify violence.
deleted 6y ago
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CogitoCogito 6y ago
It's pretty sad that in this day and age the PRC is trying to annex the ROC and arguing that the annexation would legitimate since the lands were part of imperial China more than a century ago. Apparently the citizens of the ROC have no say in this matter. Apparently the fact that the PRC and ROC have clearly demonstrated their ability to coexist doesn't matter. It's just sad. Hopefully the PRC can find some other argument supporting their legitimacy instead of neo-imperialist aggression against its non-threatening neighbors.
- spaced-out 6y ago
  That's really what I can't get over about this situation. They've been living in peace for generations, and that area is more prosperous than it's ever been in history. Yet two peoples who speak the same language might go to war with each other, why? Because of a civil war over an ideology that everyone has since abandoned? Because of how maps looked a 100 years ago? Because of crimes committed by Imperial Japan against the Qing Dynasty?
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Because none of the above. Because Taiwan is a thorn in the side of China, the open truth for all to see that freedom, not despotism can be the foundation of a prosperous Chinese state.
funviolence 6y ago
war would benefit America to see China's fighting capabilities and watch them take some losses.

15 points by natcombs 6y ago

There’s quite a difference between what Japan tried to do in WW2 and China reclaiming territory that was stolen from it by colonial powers. The US is also militarily supreme and acting provocatively. Nobody wants a conflict between superpowers.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Taiwan was not stolen from China by colonial powers. You might have a point on Hong Kong, but not on Taiwan.
- bigpumpkin 6y ago
  Taiwan was ceded from China to Japan, becoming Japan's first overseas colony, as a result of the first Sino-Japanese war. [1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Japanese_rule?oldformat=true https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Japanese_rule?old...
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    That's not why it's independent now. It's independent because after the war, it went back to the government of China, which was the Koumintang. When they lost the Chinese Civil War, they retreated to Taiwan. Hence their claim to still be the legitimate government of the mainland.
  - CogitoCogito 6y ago
    This is certainly true, but it's also true that Chinese colonized Taiwan as well. Taiwan has had a long history of outsiders coming in and taking over. At least today Taiwan's current inhabitants are in control of their own country, but unfortunately China wants to try to go in again. It seems Taiwan can never be left in peace.
chillacy 6y ago
"Reclaiming territory" is kind of a bullshit excuse though. I that actually made for moral justification, then just about everyone should be conquering each other right now. For instance, other people could reason that the current government in China is illegitimate and the Republic of China is currently exiled in Taiwan. If Taiwan were to annex China (hard to believe now but just for a thought experiment) then this would be "reclaiming territory". I also once heard a (very racist) Japanese man explain how Japan was the true inheritor of the Ming dynasty's traditions and so invading China was just "re-claiming territory" that was stolen by manchurians. I could go on but these are just narratives used to justify violence.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

CogitoCogito 6y ago

It's pretty sad that in this day and age the PRC is trying to annex the ROC and arguing that the annexation would legitimate since the lands were part of imperial China more than a century ago. Apparently the citizens of the ROC have no say in this matter. Apparently the fact that the PRC and ROC have clearly demonstrated their ability to coexist doesn't matter. It's just sad. Hopefully the PRC can find some other argument supporting their legitimacy instead of neo-imperialist aggression against its non-threatening neighbors.

spaced-out 6y ago
That's really what I can't get over about this situation. They've been living in peace for generations, and that area is more prosperous than it's ever been in history. Yet two peoples who speak the same language might go to war with each other, why? Because of a civil war over an ideology that everyone has since abandoned? Because of how maps looked a 100 years ago? Because of crimes committed by Imperial Japan against the Qing Dynasty?
- garmaine 6y ago
  Because none of the above. Because Taiwan is a thorn in the side of China, the open truth for all to see that freedom, not despotism can be the foundation of a prosperous Chinese state.

funviolence 6y ago

war would benefit America to see China's fighting capabilities and watch them take some losses.