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Are you talking about the armed teenager who drove 12 miles across state lines and put his armed self in a dangerous situation willingly? Not sure you get to ca

Are you talking about the armed teenager who drove 12 miles across state lines and put his armed self in a dangerous situation willingly? Not sure you get to call it self-defense at that time

tome 6y ago
What's the significance of 12 miles here?
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  He's not living on scene defending his property. A lot of places in the US privilege that scenario for self-defence when otherwise your actions would be prosecuted. If you take a rifle and drive to a trouble spot you could be construed as looking for trouble.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    He was, however, defending his workplace. Supposedly he worked at one of the car dealerships in the area. (and then left to try to provide medical assistance and was unable to regroup with his group at that dealership)
- tedivm 6y ago
  The fact that he illegally transported a gun over state lines to "defend" a community he wasn't part of and which didn't want him there to begin with.
  - basch 6y ago
    Depends on how you define the community. The police were thanking him for being out there, for his support, and giving out water bottles. (Top video in the article, skip about a minute in) 1:40 something in. Police: "Are you Protecting that building" Crowd: "yes" Police: "Thank you." https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/26/jacob-blake-kenosha-police-protests/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/26/jacob-blake...
    - meheleventyone 6y ago
      The US is infamous for police not policing the communities they live in. “A crowd” and “the police” say nothing about whether either belong to the local community. Also if the police are celebrating illegal acts that should tell you something about the state of justice.
      - basch 6y ago
        Id argue that defining community as where you live isnt the only way community can be used. Community could also be the place you work, the place you protect, the place you participate, the place you consume in, the place you interact with. Property, ownership, are only some of what make someone a community member.
        meheleventyone 6y ago
        Yes you can have your own local definition I suspect you will face an uphill battle for it to be accepted though. I suppose that means the protestors could be called the community too and since they outnumber both the militia types and the police they are the majority? Ultimately it’s the transitory nature of the participation that marks it out as not part of the community. For example a landlord might not be considered part of the community despite owning property.
        basch 6y ago
        I guess it depends too if you consider a suburb a part of the community of the city it surrounds. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Antioch,+Illinois+60002/Kenosha+Wisconsin/@42.611571,-88.133939,9.94z/ https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Antioch,+Illinois+60002/Keno...
        meheleventyone 6y ago
        I mean you can have fun playing semantics by changing your position per reply but this doesn’t seem fruitful or meaningful to the case at hand?
  - benmmurphy 6y ago
    Where is the evidence that he illegally transported a gun over state lines? He was legally in possession of a rifle in WI. I'm not sure of the law in Illinois but we don't know if he was in possession of the weapon in Illinois or if someone transferred possession to him when he reached WI where it is legal for him to possess.
- nickff 6y ago
  I am not sure either, but it actually diminishes the significance of the drive in my eyes, as 12 miles doesn't seem very far. I would assume that 'across state lines' was more than '12 miles'.
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  It sounds like a dramatically long distance if you live in an urban center.
thesis 6y ago
Thanks for posting this. I didn't know it was ONLY 12 miles that he drove. Based on the news I thought he went a lot farther. In regards to the "state lines" ... it's funny when people actually care about "borders".
benmw333 6y ago
There is a great breakdown of his interactions and timeline on twitter by NYT or WaPo. I'll find it... There is also no evidence (in his immediate past) or leading up to the events proving he's guilty of premeditated malicious intent.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
There was a protest/riot (depending on who you ask) that night. 12mi is probably below the median travel distance of all people from all sides who partook and everyone who partook was also putting themselves in a dangerous situation willingly. Nobody there should have that held against them. His actions prior to getting chased by and shooting the first guy are what I have serious questions about.
dazilcher 6y ago
Do I still get to call it rape if the victim was dressed provocatively though? You can disagree with his motivation all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that he was being attacked while retreating, and there's a reasonable case to be made for his life being in danger (taking hits to the head while on the ground).

Are you talking about the armed teenager who drove 12 miles across state lines and put his armed self in a dangerous situation willingly? Not sure you get to call it self-defense at that time

tome 6y ago

What's the significance of 12 miles here?

meheleventyone 6y ago
He's not living on scene defending his property. A lot of places in the US privilege that scenario for self-defence when otherwise your actions would be prosecuted. If you take a rifle and drive to a trouble spot you could be construed as looking for trouble.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  He was, however, defending his workplace. Supposedly he worked at one of the car dealerships in the area. (and then left to try to provide medical assistance and was unable to regroup with his group at that dealership)
tedivm 6y ago
The fact that he illegally transported a gun over state lines to "defend" a community he wasn't part of and which didn't want him there to begin with.
- basch 6y ago
  Depends on how you define the community. The police were thanking him for being out there, for his support, and giving out water bottles. (Top video in the article, skip about a minute in) 1:40 something in. Police: "Are you Protecting that building" Crowd: "yes" Police: "Thank you." https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/26/jacob-blake-kenosha-police-protests/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/26/jacob-blake...
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    The US is infamous for police not policing the communities they live in. “A crowd” and “the police” say nothing about whether either belong to the local community. Also if the police are celebrating illegal acts that should tell you something about the state of justice.
    - basch 6y ago
      Id argue that defining community as where you live isnt the only way community can be used. Community could also be the place you work, the place you protect, the place you participate, the place you consume in, the place you interact with. Property, ownership, are only some of what make someone a community member.
      - meheleventyone 6y ago
        Yes you can have your own local definition I suspect you will face an uphill battle for it to be accepted though. I suppose that means the protestors could be called the community too and since they outnumber both the militia types and the police they are the majority? Ultimately it’s the transitory nature of the participation that marks it out as not part of the community. For example a landlord might not be considered part of the community despite owning property.
        basch 6y ago
        I guess it depends too if you consider a suburb a part of the community of the city it surrounds. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Antioch,+Illinois+60002/Kenosha+Wisconsin/@42.611571,-88.133939,9.94z/ https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Antioch,+Illinois+60002/Keno...
        meheleventyone 6y ago
        I mean you can have fun playing semantics by changing your position per reply but this doesn’t seem fruitful or meaningful to the case at hand?
- benmmurphy 6y ago
  Where is the evidence that he illegally transported a gun over state lines? He was legally in possession of a rifle in WI. I'm not sure of the law in Illinois but we don't know if he was in possession of the weapon in Illinois or if someone transferred possession to him when he reached WI where it is legal for him to possess.
nickff 6y ago
I am not sure either, but it actually diminishes the significance of the drive in my eyes, as 12 miles doesn't seem very far. I would assume that 'across state lines' was more than '12 miles'.
crocodiletears 6y ago
It sounds like a dramatically long distance if you live in an urban center.

thesis 6y ago

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know it was ONLY 12 miles that he drove. Based on the news I thought he went a lot farther. In regards to the "state lines" ... it's funny when people actually care about "borders".

benmw333 6y ago

There is a great breakdown of his interactions and timeline on twitter by NYT or WaPo. I'll find it... There is also no evidence (in his immediate past) or leading up to the events proving he's guilty of premeditated malicious intent.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

There was a protest/riot (depending on who you ask) that night. 12mi is probably below the median travel distance of all people from all sides who partook and everyone who partook was also putting themselves in a dangerous situation willingly. Nobody there should have that held against them. His actions prior to getting chased by and shooting the first guy are what I have serious questions about.

dazilcher 6y ago

Do I still get to call it rape if the victim was dressed provocatively though? You can disagree with his motivation all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that he was being attacked while retreating, and there's a reasonable case to be made for his life being in danger (taking hits to the head while on the ground).