3 ms·

I was hoping to read about psychology on this subject, why people often conform to these kinds of stereotype once old enough to think for themselves. A lot can

by corin_ 16y ago

I was hoping to read about psychology on this subject, why people often conform to these kinds of stereotype once old enough to think for themselves. A lot can be explained away by their upbringing and social pressure, if everyone you know thinks it would be weird for you to wear a dress, have pink shoes and play with a barbie doll instead of a gun, then you learn not to want to do those things. In adults, is it still just an extension of this, or are preference differences between sexes created by more than just society? For example, movie genre preferences. And.. what about LGBT preferences? That won't be a case of upbringing, so why are gay men thought to be more likely to like the colour pink than straight men? I actually do like it, and have a few pink shirts / tshirts, and I'm certainly not aware of doing that in an attempt to be seen as gay, but am I doing that subconsciously, or is there something else at play? Or is it just a complete coincidence?

michaelchisari 16y ago
That won't be a case of upbringing, so why are gay men more likely to like the colour pink than straight men? Are they? I haven't seen any studies on that, and my anecdotal evidence certainly doesn't corroborate that idea.
- corin_ 16y ago
  You're right, I worded it wrong, I meant to say that they are thought to be more likely to like pink (have edited previous comment to be more clear). I also haven't seen any studies proving it one way or another, but certainly (in England, at least, and quite a few other countries from my personal experience) it is an extremely well-spread belief. If, for example, a 14 year old boy went to school wearing pink gloves, there would be extremely likely that he would hear someone call him gay, either as a friendly joke or as an insult. But that's why I wrote my comment, hoping something can enlighten me - and, as I said at the end, for all I know my liking the colour pink could well be a coincidence, nothing to do with my sexuality.
  - jmtulloss 16y ago
    This doesn't address the pink vs blue thing, but I found this article on the preferences of homosexuals vs heterosexuals to be fascinating: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/ My favorite quote, once it was shown that ethnicity tends to differentiate you as much as sexuality: The people of Louisiana even elected Bobby Jindal, an openly Indian man, as their governor!
    - corin_ 16y ago
      While it's interesting as food for thought, that data on that page is pretty fluffy, as it's gathered from a dating site. A couple of example reasons: - The majority of their users are presumably single and and finding it hard to find relationships - Some/many of their users may be inclined to put a spin on themselves to appear how they want to appear, rather than actually showing who they are. So, for example, this statement: "the statistical reality is that gay people as a group aren't any more slutty than straights." I'm not saying that their data came to the wrong conclusion, I have no idea if it's right or wrong, but it is possible that on average gay men do have a lot more sexual partners, it's just that the ones raising the average don't need dating sites, it's also possible that a lot of the straight men are lying to make it appear as if they have had more sexual experience than they actually have.
- jules 16y ago
  Today not anymore, but a couple of years ago this was definitely the case.
daeken 16y ago
Despite falling under the LGBT heading myself, I don't have any special insight here either, but as far as I can tell it's really just a signaling behavior. We've been conditioned to see pink -> feminine, blue -> masculine, and I believe that translates beyond just the pastels we're used to seeing small children in. When I think about a real "man's man", one of the first things to come to mind is a guy in blue jeans -- I can't help but think that that's related. Again, unscientific, but it makes a good bit of sense I believe.
jamesbritt 16y ago
so why are gay men more likely to like the colour pink than straight men? Is that even true?
jules 16y ago
Part of it is learned behavior, but part of it is not. Boys and girls are different even at a young age. They play in different ways: boys are more likely to build and break things, girls are more likely to make a story. Girls will try and make you like them by acting cute. My parents gave me and my brothers girls toys to try at a young age, which we threw around, and we used them to build piles and to rode on them sliding across the room. At a later age, social pressures become very important. Boys are encouraged to do boys things and girls are encouraged to do girls things. People tell a boy to walk with his chest forward in a manly way. People tell a girl to be careful and not do dangerous things like climbing trees. The same goes for clothing and other preferences. When I was young and people asked me what my favorite color was I knew that green or blue was the right answer and pink or purple was not. As for LGBT preferences I think the same applies. There are definitely gay boys who act a bit like girls even at a young age, and lesbian girls who act a bit like boys at a young age, but this is absolutely not a general rule. Societal pressures are another part of why gay men often act relatively more feminine and lesbian women often act more masculine: on LGBT people there is less pressure to act in a way that confirms their gender, and it's easier for them to ignore the pressure. Until recently if a guy wore pink clothing he would be "corrected" by his friends and family. This is less likely to happen if the guy is gay, and if it does happen the pressure is easier to ignore because he or she has already dealt with the far greater pressure to be with the opposite gender. Still there is a large group of men who wouldn't wear pink simply for fear of being perceived as gay. Since openly gay men are already perceived as gay this problem goes away. I conjecture that closeted gay men are less likely to wear pink for this reason.
- corin_ 16y ago
  I knew that green or blue was the right answer and pink or purple was not Purely from learning the societal norm? Do you remember what your answer would have been from an even younger age, before you learned from the culture around you? I conjecture that closeted gay men are less likely to wear pink for this reason. Agreed, but I think this actually goes in a loop. I'm not sure where we are in that loop right now, I think we're definitely moving towards seeing men in the closet actually chose to wear pink, but don't think that's common, yet. My reason for thinking this is that it's a typical double bluff - if everyone knows that men in the closet avoid pink, then wearing pink becomes a way of showing that you don't care what people think, and aren't hiding anything. A similar example of perceptions going in a cycle is people wearing striped clothes to look thinner. It was a fairly well-known "fact" that verticle stripes make you look thinner while horizontal stripes make you look fatter, but it has now been shown to be the opposite way round - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3351615/Horizontal-stripes-make-you-look-thinner.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3351615/Hori... There is a view, I can't remember where I read it, and therefore am unsure whether it's a well-believed view or just a guess, that this just loops around. If everyone thinks that vertical stripes are slimming, then when you see someone wearing them your mind automatically assumes they are a little bit fatter than they actually are, so the effects are reversed.
MartinCron 16y ago
I'm a straight man and I really like the color pink, but I find that I only can wear pink/lavender in the context of formal wear. A pink polo or t-shirt? No way. Pink accents in a necktie or a lavender dress shirt under charcoal pinstripe suit? No problem.
- jules 16y ago
  What is the reason that you cannot wear a pink polo or t-shirt?
  - MartinCron 16y ago
    I suspect it's that I don't want to come across as too effeminate-looking, even though I don't have a problem with a lot of other things that aren't typically masculine (I do flower arranging, I cook, I ride a Vespa). My inability to wear pink is probably the last scrap of masculine insecurity. Also, it's totally wrong for my complexion.
    - corin_ 16y ago
      If you have any masculine insecurity at all, you should probably avoid saying things like "it's totally wrong for my complexion" ;)
stretchwithme 16y ago
The fact that a particular color is considered feminine is cultural. The fact that people want to wear feminine colors is innate. And they'll do it even if they can only do it secretly. And there are always people who are too afraid to do what they really want and just do what is expected. And differently people care about this sort of thing to different degrees. By the way, this has nothing to do with being gay, which is about attraction. Gay guys are a lot less attracted to people that wear pink than straight guys are. Gay drag queens and straight transvestites have something else in common.

by corin_ 16y ago

michaelchisari 16y ago

That won't be a case of upbringing, so why are gay men more likely to like the colour pink than straight men? Are they? I haven't seen any studies on that, and my anecdotal evidence certainly doesn't corroborate that idea.

corin_ 16y ago
You're right, I worded it wrong, I meant to say that they are thought to be more likely to like pink (have edited previous comment to be more clear). I also haven't seen any studies proving it one way or another, but certainly (in England, at least, and quite a few other countries from my personal experience) it is an extremely well-spread belief. If, for example, a 14 year old boy went to school wearing pink gloves, there would be extremely likely that he would hear someone call him gay, either as a friendly joke or as an insult. But that's why I wrote my comment, hoping something can enlighten me - and, as I said at the end, for all I know my liking the colour pink could well be a coincidence, nothing to do with my sexuality.
- jmtulloss 16y ago
  This doesn't address the pink vs blue thing, but I found this article on the preferences of homosexuals vs heterosexuals to be fascinating: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/ My favorite quote, once it was shown that ethnicity tends to differentiate you as much as sexuality: The people of Louisiana even elected Bobby Jindal, an openly Indian man, as their governor!
  - corin_ 16y ago
    While it's interesting as food for thought, that data on that page is pretty fluffy, as it's gathered from a dating site. A couple of example reasons: - The majority of their users are presumably single and and finding it hard to find relationships - Some/many of their users may be inclined to put a spin on themselves to appear how they want to appear, rather than actually showing who they are. So, for example, this statement: "the statistical reality is that gay people as a group aren't any more slutty than straights." I'm not saying that their data came to the wrong conclusion, I have no idea if it's right or wrong, but it is possible that on average gay men do have a lot more sexual partners, it's just that the ones raising the average don't need dating sites, it's also possible that a lot of the straight men are lying to make it appear as if they have had more sexual experience than they actually have.
jules 16y ago
Today not anymore, but a couple of years ago this was definitely the case.

daeken 16y ago

Despite falling under the LGBT heading myself, I don't have any special insight here either, but as far as I can tell it's really just a signaling behavior. We've been conditioned to see pink -> feminine, blue -> masculine, and I believe that translates beyond just the pastels we're used to seeing small children in. When I think about a real "man's man", one of the first things to come to mind is a guy in blue jeans -- I can't help but think that that's related. Again, unscientific, but it makes a good bit of sense I believe.

jamesbritt 16y ago

so why are gay men more likely to like the colour pink than straight men? Is that even true?

jules 16y ago

Part of it is learned behavior, but part of it is not. Boys and girls are different even at a young age. They play in different ways: boys are more likely to build and break things, girls are more likely to make a story. Girls will try and make you like them by acting cute. My parents gave me and my brothers girls toys to try at a young age, which we threw around, and we used them to build piles and to rode on them sliding across the room. At a later age, social pressures become very important. Boys are encouraged to do boys things and girls are encouraged to do girls things. People tell a boy to walk with his chest forward in a manly way. People tell a girl to be careful and not do dangerous things like climbing trees. The same goes for clothing and other preferences. When I was young and people asked me what my favorite color was I knew that green or blue was the right answer and pink or purple was not. As for LGBT preferences I think the same applies. There are definitely gay boys who act a bit like girls even at a young age, and lesbian girls who act a bit like boys at a young age, but this is absolutely not a general rule. Societal pressures are another part of why gay men often act relatively more feminine and lesbian women often act more masculine: on LGBT people there is less pressure to act in a way that confirms their gender, and it's easier for them to ignore the pressure. Until recently if a guy wore pink clothing he would be "corrected" by his friends and family. This is less likely to happen if the guy is gay, and if it does happen the pressure is easier to ignore because he or she has already dealt with the far greater pressure to be with the opposite gender. Still there is a large group of men who wouldn't wear pink simply for fear of being perceived as gay. Since openly gay men are already perceived as gay this problem goes away. I conjecture that closeted gay men are less likely to wear pink for this reason.

corin_ 16y ago
I knew that green or blue was the right answer and pink or purple was not Purely from learning the societal norm? Do you remember what your answer would have been from an even younger age, before you learned from the culture around you? I conjecture that closeted gay men are less likely to wear pink for this reason. Agreed, but I think this actually goes in a loop. I'm not sure where we are in that loop right now, I think we're definitely moving towards seeing men in the closet actually chose to wear pink, but don't think that's common, yet. My reason for thinking this is that it's a typical double bluff - if everyone knows that men in the closet avoid pink, then wearing pink becomes a way of showing that you don't care what people think, and aren't hiding anything. A similar example of perceptions going in a cycle is people wearing striped clothes to look thinner. It was a fairly well-known "fact" that verticle stripes make you look thinner while horizontal stripes make you look fatter, but it has now been shown to be the opposite way round - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3351615/Horizontal-stripes-make-you-look-thinner.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3351615/Hori... There is a view, I can't remember where I read it, and therefore am unsure whether it's a well-believed view or just a guess, that this just loops around. If everyone thinks that vertical stripes are slimming, then when you see someone wearing them your mind automatically assumes they are a little bit fatter than they actually are, so the effects are reversed.

MartinCron 16y ago

I'm a straight man and I really like the color pink, but I find that I only can wear pink/lavender in the context of formal wear. A pink polo or t-shirt? No way. Pink accents in a necktie or a lavender dress shirt under charcoal pinstripe suit? No problem.

jules 16y ago
What is the reason that you cannot wear a pink polo or t-shirt?
- MartinCron 16y ago
  I suspect it's that I don't want to come across as too effeminate-looking, even though I don't have a problem with a lot of other things that aren't typically masculine (I do flower arranging, I cook, I ride a Vespa). My inability to wear pink is probably the last scrap of masculine insecurity. Also, it's totally wrong for my complexion.
  - corin_ 16y ago
    If you have any masculine insecurity at all, you should probably avoid saying things like "it's totally wrong for my complexion" ;)

stretchwithme 16y ago

The fact that a particular color is considered feminine is cultural. The fact that people want to wear feminine colors is innate. And they'll do it even if they can only do it secretly. And there are always people who are too afraid to do what they really want and just do what is expected. And differently people care about this sort of thing to different degrees. By the way, this has nothing to do with being gay, which is about attraction. Gay guys are a lot less attracted to people that wear pink than straight guys are. Gay drag queens and straight transvestites have something else in common.