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This is a bad faith argument. Twitter and Facebook do a lot to take down hate speech from their platforms (with exceptions made for "public interest" cases like

This is a bad faith argument. Twitter and Facebook do a lot to take down hate speech from their platforms (with exceptions made for "public interest" cases like high level politicians). Some servers on the fediverse specifically allow unfettered hate speech.

kaibee 6y ago
So google is taking down Discord and anything that provides an IRC like experience too then?
jakelazaroff 6y ago
No, it's bad faith to pretend that some random Fediverse server that allows unfettered hate speech has the same societal impact as the mountains of misinformation and bigotry that flourish on Twitter and Facebook, despite their half-hearted efforts to look like they're fighting it. Just look at the scale at which Facebook enables the distribution of right-wing propaganda: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/technology/what-if-facebook-is-the-real-silent-majority.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/technology/what-if-facebo...
- thelean12 6y ago
  Have any of the Fediverse apps that were banned from the app store done anything to prevent the issues that you say Facebook and Twitter have? I'll take the simple banning of a harmful server on their app as a way to change my mind on this issue.
  - nikitaga 6y ago
    I personally don't know, but neither have Chrome or Firefox done anything to block hate speech websites, and they're allowed to exist just fine. Twitter actually hosts the trashpile, they're more responsible for it than some app that just lets you access trashpiles on third party servers.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    No idea. Look it up if that would sway you. I'm not defending these hypothetical Fediverse apps that don't moderate. I'm saying that compared to Fediverse apps exposing a few thousand people to hate speech, Facebook and Twitter actively promoting bigotry, propaganda and conspiracy theories to tens or hundreds of millions of people is far more harmful — even if they make a nominal effort to prevent it from happening. And, more to the point, I'm alleging that the reason Google is taking down the Fediverse apps and not Facebook or Twitter has nothing to do with their moderation policies, and everything to do with money.
  - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
    They have done exactly that multiple times. For example, the app Tusky has a hardcoded list of hate-speech instances for which the login is blocked, to just give you one example. Other than that, the instances themselves simply choose not to federate with questionable instances. This happens in an almost organic way where if an instance refuses to block federation with another questionable instance, other instances will then also refuse to federate with that instance. The result is a network where hate-speech and undesirable content has been almost organically filtered out. But keep in mind that the (client) apps themselves are more like web browsers. Anyone can host their own website and access its content through one of these apps. This also means that instances which are blocked by an app can very easily circumvent that as well. (Sorry for my bad english and repeatedly using the word "instances")
    - thelean12 6y ago
      I asked about the apps that were banned from the play store. Tusky is still available on play store. Maybe their hardcoded list of hate-speech instances were enough for Google to keep them on the play store?
      - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
        Fedilab and Husky are still available in the play store too.
Vinnl 6y ago
But the authors of these apps have no influence over what servers you connect with. It doesn't feel much different from visiting a hate speech website using your web browser, and they (luckily) do not get banned either.
deleted 6y ago
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kaibee 6y ago

So google is taking down Discord and anything that provides an IRC like experience too then?

jakelazaroff 6y ago

No, it's bad faith to pretend that some random Fediverse server that allows unfettered hate speech has the same societal impact as the mountains of misinformation and bigotry that flourish on Twitter and Facebook, despite their half-hearted efforts to look like they're fighting it. Just look at the scale at which Facebook enables the distribution of right-wing propaganda: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/technology/what-if-facebook-is-the-real-silent-majority.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/technology/what-if-facebo...

thelean12 6y ago
Have any of the Fediverse apps that were banned from the app store done anything to prevent the issues that you say Facebook and Twitter have? I'll take the simple banning of a harmful server on their app as a way to change my mind on this issue.
- nikitaga 6y ago
  I personally don't know, but neither have Chrome or Firefox done anything to block hate speech websites, and they're allowed to exist just fine. Twitter actually hosts the trashpile, they're more responsible for it than some app that just lets you access trashpiles on third party servers.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  No idea. Look it up if that would sway you. I'm not defending these hypothetical Fediverse apps that don't moderate. I'm saying that compared to Fediverse apps exposing a few thousand people to hate speech, Facebook and Twitter actively promoting bigotry, propaganda and conspiracy theories to tens or hundreds of millions of people is far more harmful — even if they make a nominal effort to prevent it from happening. And, more to the point, I'm alleging that the reason Google is taking down the Fediverse apps and not Facebook or Twitter has nothing to do with their moderation policies, and everything to do with money.
- djeiasbsbo 6y ago
  They have done exactly that multiple times. For example, the app Tusky has a hardcoded list of hate-speech instances for which the login is blocked, to just give you one example. Other than that, the instances themselves simply choose not to federate with questionable instances. This happens in an almost organic way where if an instance refuses to block federation with another questionable instance, other instances will then also refuse to federate with that instance. The result is a network where hate-speech and undesirable content has been almost organically filtered out. But keep in mind that the (client) apps themselves are more like web browsers. Anyone can host their own website and access its content through one of these apps. This also means that instances which are blocked by an app can very easily circumvent that as well. (Sorry for my bad english and repeatedly using the word "instances")
  - thelean12 6y ago
    I asked about the apps that were banned from the play store. Tusky is still available on play store. Maybe their hardcoded list of hate-speech instances were enough for Google to keep them on the play store?
    - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
      Fedilab and Husky are still available in the play store too.

Vinnl 6y ago

But the authors of these apps have no influence over what servers you connect with. It doesn't feel much different from visiting a hate speech website using your web browser, and they (luckily) do not get banned either.

deleted 6y ago

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