5 ms·

Yes, Mac touchpads are light years ahead of any other trackpad. I believe this is because they control both, the hardware and the software side of it. For me

by midrus 6y ago

Yes, Mac touchpads are light years ahead of any other trackpad. I believe this is because they control both, the hardware and the software side of it. For me this is the only reason holding me from moving too.

thebean11 6y ago
I never really got this argument, what exactly is stopping a manufacturer from writing a great trackpad driver?
- actuator 6y ago
  I have heard and read in reviews that Microsoft has more or less nailed the touchpad in Surface laptops. So definitely there is scope.
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    They are the second best track pad, but I'd say there is still a significant gap between that and a Macbook Pro trackpad.
  - gxx 6y ago
    I've been wanting to switch to Windows from Mac for years. The thing that holds me back is the quality of the Mac touchpad vs any Windows laptop, and I recently ordered a Surface Book 3 having heard how great the touchpad is. I've already returned it. The touchpad is pretty good but it's still not as precise as the Mac touchpad - there is a slight hysteresis that makes it imprecise for short movements. No amount of tweaking settings could overcome this. The only way to be accurate at short range is to slow the overall pointer speed so it takes more than one finger swipe to move across the screen. (If anyone from Microsoft is reading this - why don't you fix it? It can't be that hard.) The other problem with the Surface Book is the Home and End keys are not accessible at the same time as the function keys - a show-stopper for smooth editing and debugging in an IDE.
  - gxx 6y ago
    I've been wanting to switch to Windows from Mac for years. The thing that holds me back is the quality of the Mac touchpad vs any Windows laptop, and I recently ordered a Surface Book 3 having heard how great the touchpad is. I've already returned it. The touchpad is pretty good but it's still not as precise as the Mac touchpad - there is a slight hysteresis that makes it imprecise for short movements. No amount of tweaking settings could overcome this. The only way to be accurate at short range is to slow the overall pointer speed so it takes more than one finger swipe to move across the screen. The other problem with the Surface Book is the Home and End keys are not accessible at the same time as the function keys - a show-stopper for smooth editing and debugging in an IDE.
- addicted 6y ago
  Frankly I think this argument has been wrong IMO. Let’s take Dell for example. There is nothing stopping them from investing in the touchpad controller and designing it themselves if they want full control. And the OS level work is in the driver which is basically controlled by Dell themselves. Originally Windows treated all touch pads as USB mice, at which point it was understandable that they couldn’t make their touch pads better. However, now Windows has an excellent and full fledged API that allows far more control, equivalent to what Macs can do. Further, if Dell wanted changes to Windows to improve their touchpad I hardly doubt MS would resist. Personally, I suspect the real reason touchpad haven’t improved in the Windows world is that the vast majority of windows laptops are used for work and business, so they are either docked, or they have mice plugged in and their customers are happy using it that way.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  I think that argument has become the default claim for whenever Apple does something well, even when it doesn't make any sense. It particularly doesn't make sense in this case because we're talking about Linux, where anybody can make any changes they like to not only the drivers but the entire operating system. OEMs already commonly have their own distributions. Apple have a good trackpad because they developed a good trackpad. There is nothing really stopping anyone else from doing the same, whether or not they actually have.
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    Anyone can make changes, but it's far fewer people who are paid to make changes, and even fewer people paid to polish the experience. Doing the detailed work to make applications "feel good" to use is very difficult, time consuming and the returns aren't immediately obvious. This is not an area of strength for either Windows or Linux. Apple and apps developed for their products tend to be a lot better in this area.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      But this still has nothing to do with "controls the software and the hardware" -- which is also true for the people with other priorities. OEMs can modify Linux however they like. Microsoft makes their own hardware (e.g. Surface). But Microsoft targets businesses who don't care about polish because the buyer and the user are different people, and Linux targets hackers who care more about other things. It has nothing to do with what was originally claimed.
lallysingh 6y ago
Also they bought FingerWorks[1] some years ago, who really pushed the envelope in this space. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks
JamesSwift 6y ago
Software has a lot to do with it, but there is still a lot of work to do on hardware side as well. All the non-mac trackpads I use are physically 'sticky' whereas my finger just glides on the macbook. It's very frustrating.
rkangel 6y ago
I agree that mac trackpads are better. I only really use it for a bit of web browsing though, I don't touch a mouse during most of my development flow at all. The trackpoint is pretty good as well as an alternative.

by midrus 6y ago

thebean11 6y ago

I never really got this argument, what exactly is stopping a manufacturer from writing a great trackpad driver?

actuator 6y ago
I have heard and read in reviews that Microsoft has more or less nailed the touchpad in Surface laptops. So definitely there is scope.
- tstrimple 6y ago
  They are the second best track pad, but I'd say there is still a significant gap between that and a Macbook Pro trackpad.
- gxx 6y ago
  I've been wanting to switch to Windows from Mac for years. The thing that holds me back is the quality of the Mac touchpad vs any Windows laptop, and I recently ordered a Surface Book 3 having heard how great the touchpad is. I've already returned it. The touchpad is pretty good but it's still not as precise as the Mac touchpad - there is a slight hysteresis that makes it imprecise for short movements. No amount of tweaking settings could overcome this. The only way to be accurate at short range is to slow the overall pointer speed so it takes more than one finger swipe to move across the screen. (If anyone from Microsoft is reading this - why don't you fix it? It can't be that hard.) The other problem with the Surface Book is the Home and End keys are not accessible at the same time as the function keys - a show-stopper for smooth editing and debugging in an IDE.
- gxx 6y ago
  I've been wanting to switch to Windows from Mac for years. The thing that holds me back is the quality of the Mac touchpad vs any Windows laptop, and I recently ordered a Surface Book 3 having heard how great the touchpad is. I've already returned it. The touchpad is pretty good but it's still not as precise as the Mac touchpad - there is a slight hysteresis that makes it imprecise for short movements. No amount of tweaking settings could overcome this. The only way to be accurate at short range is to slow the overall pointer speed so it takes more than one finger swipe to move across the screen. The other problem with the Surface Book is the Home and End keys are not accessible at the same time as the function keys - a show-stopper for smooth editing and debugging in an IDE.
addicted 6y ago
Frankly I think this argument has been wrong IMO. Let’s take Dell for example. There is nothing stopping them from investing in the touchpad controller and designing it themselves if they want full control. And the OS level work is in the driver which is basically controlled by Dell themselves. Originally Windows treated all touch pads as USB mice, at which point it was understandable that they couldn’t make their touch pads better. However, now Windows has an excellent and full fledged API that allows far more control, equivalent to what Macs can do. Further, if Dell wanted changes to Windows to improve their touchpad I hardly doubt MS would resist. Personally, I suspect the real reason touchpad haven’t improved in the Windows world is that the vast majority of windows laptops are used for work and business, so they are either docked, or they have mice plugged in and their customers are happy using it that way.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
I think that argument has become the default claim for whenever Apple does something well, even when it doesn't make any sense. It particularly doesn't make sense in this case because we're talking about Linux, where anybody can make any changes they like to not only the drivers but the entire operating system. OEMs already commonly have their own distributions. Apple have a good trackpad because they developed a good trackpad. There is nothing really stopping anyone else from doing the same, whether or not they actually have.
- tstrimple 6y ago
  Anyone can make changes, but it's far fewer people who are paid to make changes, and even fewer people paid to polish the experience. Doing the detailed work to make applications "feel good" to use is very difficult, time consuming and the returns aren't immediately obvious. This is not an area of strength for either Windows or Linux. Apple and apps developed for their products tend to be a lot better in this area.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    But this still has nothing to do with "controls the software and the hardware" -- which is also true for the people with other priorities. OEMs can modify Linux however they like. Microsoft makes their own hardware (e.g. Surface). But Microsoft targets businesses who don't care about polish because the buyer and the user are different people, and Linux targets hackers who care more about other things. It has nothing to do with what was originally claimed.

lallysingh 6y ago

Also they bought FingerWorks[1] some years ago, who really pushed the envelope in this space. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks

JamesSwift 6y ago

Software has a lot to do with it, but there is still a lot of work to do on hardware side as well. All the non-mac trackpads I use are physically 'sticky' whereas my finger just glides on the macbook. It's very frustrating.

rkangel 6y ago

I agree that mac trackpads are better. I only really use it for a bit of web browsing though, I don't touch a mouse during most of my development flow at all. The trackpoint is pretty good as well as an alternative.