9 ms·

I saw this shared on Twitter this morning, and had some thoughts: While the graph is good, it is specific to the US and ignores the fact that a large amount of

by hibby 6y ago

I saw this shared on Twitter this morning, and had some thoughts: While the graph is good, it is specific to the US and ignores the fact that a large amount of the amateur population is 50+ - the hobby is healthy now, but there's an age crisis coming soon. It doesn't really reflect the health of the entire hobby, globally, just a specific subset. Millenials aren't young any more, I'm millenial and I've held a ham license for over a decade - since my 20s. We're creeping in to middle age now, and are somewhat past killing anything. We need Zoomers - Gen Z to be interested, and the first step is probably not mislabeling them as millenials! That said, there's a robust discussion to be had around this topic. I absolutely love my hobby, the things it makes me do and the constant stream of projects it gives me, but one day I do fear there won't be any folks on the radio for me to talk to at the end of the projects. I've got friends in the local hacklab interested, and I'm trying to set up a /good/ station there to let us play, teach and share more with people who aren't licensed... but it's really just a slow, expensive passion project!

melling 6y ago
I got my license 25 years ago and now I’m 50+. Even then the population skewed much older. I never got into HAM and never really used it. I always thought the hobby would evolve into more of a digital Internet. The idea of chatting with voice is really not appealing. Too much like CB radios in the 1970’s.
- jcims 6y ago
  I'm just about ready for my ten year renewal and almost 50. Same for me. I got it for the ability to use APRS and other higher power options for high altitude balloon tracking (project never got off the ground hurr).
- ja27 6y ago
  Yeah I've been licensed for 25+ years and I'm still one of the younger hams here. I was never really into random rag-chews / chats on repeaters or HF. I did a lot of public service - disaster relief and helping with fundraising walks/rides - but that's mostly dried up here. Still some room for hams to serve in other disaster roles. Been doing a lot with SDRs but outside of ham radio.
mikece 6y ago
> a large amount of the amateur population is 50+ Yes, and a lot of these folks take a "get off my lawn" approach to anything that's different to how amateur radio has been done for the last 50 years. Try talking up metro-wide mesh data network or using packet radio for anything other than APRS you get the "Why would you want to do that?" Once upon a time amateur radio operators MADE their own equipment: it was the maker space par excellence long before the term came into being. There is so much that can be done with digital, SDR, and hybrid/fusion over-the-air and internet modes. We could probably advance the hobby further and faster by creating new amateur radio clubs specifically aimed at younger, more technical makers and experimenters and specifically excluding people who think talking about the weather on a local repeater is the height of the craft. Yes, its elitist, agist snobbery but if amateur radio isn't a home for hackers and makers it's going to die within our lifetimes.
- vidanay 6y ago
  There's also more than a fair share of OM spouting off about their gout, dieabeetus, negroes, and Jeezus. Phone frequencies are a real cesspool most of the time.
  - paulirwin 6y ago
    I assume you're being downvoted because of the terms you're using, but you're not wrong. Extra class licensee here. On phone (Single Sideband "SSB" or FM typically, for those not familiar with the terminology, where you use radio for voice rather than data/Morse) I've heard all kinds of absolutely reprehensible things. In one single conversation where a man was ranting about mask mandates, he managed to throw in derogatory use of the word "retarded," toxic masculinity insults, homophobia (including equating it to bestiality), racist innuendo, and even a call to arms to kill our governor if they wouldn't stop this mask mandate. Myself and others tried to temper the conversation and return to civility, but they wouldn't have it. It's one thing when people say these things in two-way conversations on HF, with lots of frequencies available to change to if you don't like what you hear. It's another when it's on the local FM repeater with a single frequency shared by thousands of people. In order for amateur radio to thrive, it needs to be a welcoming and inclusive place to everyone. Young scouts - children! - of all genders, races, and backgrounds are learning ham radio and tuning into their local repeaters or working HF. I can't imagine what they or their parents thought if they happened to be listening in at that moment. Hams need to all be good to each other, and keep the negativity, insults, bigotry, and politics for your social media pages. Let's get back to talking about propagation, antennas, RFI in the shack, debating FT8, doing emergency prep, or even just discussing the weather.
brian_herman 6y ago
I've been to ham radio clubs and the age gap is real. I go to the meetups in the Chicago land area and only see about one or two people my age. The people my age are usually sons or daughters of the older people.
- hibby 6y ago
  This is a big problem in the UK too. The club I started in had a less pronounced issue, but we also went to the pub after the main meet, and there was a secondary, technical only night run by members of the club. This made it a bit more welcoming and and less off putting to 20 year old me, but the local club up here meet once a week and it's a tight clique. I don't even want to try to break in to it! That said, it's not a bad thing that clubs exist to serve their members if that's what they want to do, we'll just make our own, hopefully more friendly club run by guys in their 30s!
- armadsen 6y ago
  I got my license at age 15 in 1999. I'm 36 now, and still among the "young" people in the local club. That said, ham radio has been a huge, important part of my life, and is what inspired me to be an engineer. The people I've met through it, both young and old, have been really great.
detaro 6y ago
Two additional things from someone who has considered getting a license a few times, but never quite made the jump because it wasn't clear what for in the end: - a bunch of interesting radio things are available without a license today - e.g. hunting for various signals with a cheap SDR receiver. Which could potentially be a way for ham communities to then get people deeper into it, but the communities seem quite distinct, or even hostile to each other (the latter is even worse between ham and non-licensed radio communities) - online communities. For better or worse, thats what people look for today for niche interests, and dedicated ham communities often are ... not the best advertisement. (EDIT: but people are sharing plenty of links in this thread, so I'll have stuff to dig through) A hackspace is probably a good environment to get people into it (my local ones don't seem to have active hams, but in theory). EDIT: just noticed the username. Greetings to the Scottish Embassy!
- hibby 6y ago
  Gosh it's weird to be recognised on HN for something good that I've done :D
- bityard 6y ago
  I can't say I disagree with you. I got my ham radio license in my late 30's because radio has always fascinated the hell out of me, even as a kid. But when I was a kid, being able to talk to someone far away without incurring the cost of a long-distance phone call was still a novelty. The ubiquity of the Internet and smart phones took away that particular novelty. I still have a radio (several, actually) and one day when I have a larger piece of property I may even set up a reasonable HF station to participate in contests and the like but right now it's hard to justify spending time on a hobby that has little productive value at the end of the day.
crocodiletears 6y ago
This is why I've swerved off of getting into HAM. By popular perception (in my circles, and perception doesn't necessarily reflect reality) it's a chatroom for boomers (not necessarily a bad thing) waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), with a cost of entry of at least a hundred dollars for equipment that supports a fixed set of protocols with a very narrow use-case. Radio just seems top closed off to get into asanything other than a passive listener.
- BenjiWiebe 6y ago
  Mid 20's Extra here... Experimentation is totally allowed. Either the FCC will ignore the complaint, or you are actually outside the (very lenient) experimentation rules.
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    That's good to know. Any reccommended place to get started (assuming I already own an rtl-sdr)?
- mywittyname 6y ago
  > waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), This is what always kept me away from HAM Radios. Everyone I knew that was into it was a huge stickler about the rules and would talk about all the bad stuff that should happen to rule breakers. It was pretty unnerving.
  - ezren 6y ago
    One of the express purposes of the amateur radio service is to facilitate experimentation and innovation in radio technology, and the FCC grants special licenses for that purpose all the time. There's a significant amount of harm you can do with a radio, so willfully causing interference to other radio services will earn you a hefty penalty. You should definitely get into amateur radio if you have an interest, and maybe look into some of the instances the FCC actually issued fines - if you're not out to cause harm you have nothing to worry about.
abruzzi 6y ago
I would agree that online there are a bunch of loud "get off my lawn" type voicer (I remember a published article on one of the bigger ham forums, where the guy bemoaned that a local ham club advertised a event as a "maker" event to appeal to young people, to him maker was for women, i.e. home maker.) But my local ham club was the most helpful, open, and interested group of people. Yes, they are mostly 65+ and some quite old, but they are doing new and interesting things, including many of the digital modes like the ones listed in the article. There is a group of about 5 of them, nicknamed the QRSS Mafia. They are using ultra low power (200mw and frequently less) to send signals to the opposite side of the planet. One of them was recieved 2500 miles away (New Mexico to Florida) on 8.5 microwatts. At the time it was the recorded world record for distance/power (on the planet, communicating with voyager 1 doesn't count.)
jdietrich 6y ago
Here in the UK, we've seen a huge surge in people - especially younger people - getting licensed since lockdown, in large part because it's now possible to take your license exams online. I think that the RSGB (our ARRL) had severely under-estimated the amount of friction in the old examination system and the amount of pent-up demand created by things like RTL-SDR.
- m0xte 6y ago
  That’ll be also because the local club usual incompetence can’t get in the way with social distancing. I had so much trouble even going back a few years getting my license because most folk can’t organise a piss up in a brewery. RSGB were little help. Eventually ML&S came through on this front with their training and examination courses which were excellent.
bobloblaw45 6y ago
My dad is/was a ham. My experience growing up with ham radio in the house was so negative that it's just kinda a turn off for me. Going back to the early 90s, for a lot of those old boomer types ham was mostly just a way to out-do eachother by showing off their rigs. It's kind of disappointing to me that they have this awesome technology they could have been taking to the next level but instead just spend hours whistling into the mic and bragging. In addition I got a sense that many of the old guys were actively working as gatekeepers as a way to stroke their own egos. These guys were a big part of the hobby for years and because of that the hobby has been stagnate. But from what it looks like it seems that they're swiftly being replaced by the newer generation of tinkerers in recent years which is pretty awesome.

by hibby 6y ago

melling 6y ago

I got my license 25 years ago and now I’m 50+. Even then the population skewed much older. I never got into HAM and never really used it. I always thought the hobby would evolve into more of a digital Internet. The idea of chatting with voice is really not appealing. Too much like CB radios in the 1970’s.

jcims 6y ago
I'm just about ready for my ten year renewal and almost 50. Same for me. I got it for the ability to use APRS and other higher power options for high altitude balloon tracking (project never got off the ground hurr).
ja27 6y ago
Yeah I've been licensed for 25+ years and I'm still one of the younger hams here. I was never really into random rag-chews / chats on repeaters or HF. I did a lot of public service - disaster relief and helping with fundraising walks/rides - but that's mostly dried up here. Still some room for hams to serve in other disaster roles. Been doing a lot with SDRs but outside of ham radio.

mikece 6y ago

> a large amount of the amateur population is 50+ Yes, and a lot of these folks take a "get off my lawn" approach to anything that's different to how amateur radio has been done for the last 50 years. Try talking up metro-wide mesh data network or using packet radio for anything other than APRS you get the "Why would you want to do that?" Once upon a time amateur radio operators MADE their own equipment: it was the maker space par excellence long before the term came into being. There is so much that can be done with digital, SDR, and hybrid/fusion over-the-air and internet modes. We could probably advance the hobby further and faster by creating new amateur radio clubs specifically aimed at younger, more technical makers and experimenters and specifically excluding people who think talking about the weather on a local repeater is the height of the craft. Yes, its elitist, agist snobbery but if amateur radio isn't a home for hackers and makers it's going to die within our lifetimes.

vidanay 6y ago
There's also more than a fair share of OM spouting off about their gout, dieabeetus, negroes, and Jeezus. Phone frequencies are a real cesspool most of the time.
- paulirwin 6y ago
  I assume you're being downvoted because of the terms you're using, but you're not wrong. Extra class licensee here. On phone (Single Sideband "SSB" or FM typically, for those not familiar with the terminology, where you use radio for voice rather than data/Morse) I've heard all kinds of absolutely reprehensible things. In one single conversation where a man was ranting about mask mandates, he managed to throw in derogatory use of the word "retarded," toxic masculinity insults, homophobia (including equating it to bestiality), racist innuendo, and even a call to arms to kill our governor if they wouldn't stop this mask mandate. Myself and others tried to temper the conversation and return to civility, but they wouldn't have it. It's one thing when people say these things in two-way conversations on HF, with lots of frequencies available to change to if you don't like what you hear. It's another when it's on the local FM repeater with a single frequency shared by thousands of people. In order for amateur radio to thrive, it needs to be a welcoming and inclusive place to everyone. Young scouts - children! - of all genders, races, and backgrounds are learning ham radio and tuning into their local repeaters or working HF. I can't imagine what they or their parents thought if they happened to be listening in at that moment. Hams need to all be good to each other, and keep the negativity, insults, bigotry, and politics for your social media pages. Let's get back to talking about propagation, antennas, RFI in the shack, debating FT8, doing emergency prep, or even just discussing the weather.

brian_herman 6y ago

I've been to ham radio clubs and the age gap is real. I go to the meetups in the Chicago land area and only see about one or two people my age. The people my age are usually sons or daughters of the older people.

hibby 6y ago
This is a big problem in the UK too. The club I started in had a less pronounced issue, but we also went to the pub after the main meet, and there was a secondary, technical only night run by members of the club. This made it a bit more welcoming and and less off putting to 20 year old me, but the local club up here meet once a week and it's a tight clique. I don't even want to try to break in to it! That said, it's not a bad thing that clubs exist to serve their members if that's what they want to do, we'll just make our own, hopefully more friendly club run by guys in their 30s!
armadsen 6y ago
I got my license at age 15 in 1999. I'm 36 now, and still among the "young" people in the local club. That said, ham radio has been a huge, important part of my life, and is what inspired me to be an engineer. The people I've met through it, both young and old, have been really great.

detaro 6y ago

Two additional things from someone who has considered getting a license a few times, but never quite made the jump because it wasn't clear what for in the end: - a bunch of interesting radio things are available without a license today - e.g. hunting for various signals with a cheap SDR receiver. Which could potentially be a way for ham communities to then get people deeper into it, but the communities seem quite distinct, or even hostile to each other (the latter is even worse between ham and non-licensed radio communities) - online communities. For better or worse, thats what people look for today for niche interests, and dedicated ham communities often are ... not the best advertisement. (EDIT: but people are sharing plenty of links in this thread, so I'll have stuff to dig through) A hackspace is probably a good environment to get people into it (my local ones don't seem to have active hams, but in theory). EDIT: just noticed the username. Greetings to the Scottish Embassy!

hibby 6y ago
Gosh it's weird to be recognised on HN for something good that I've done :D
bityard 6y ago
I can't say I disagree with you. I got my ham radio license in my late 30's because radio has always fascinated the hell out of me, even as a kid. But when I was a kid, being able to talk to someone far away without incurring the cost of a long-distance phone call was still a novelty. The ubiquity of the Internet and smart phones took away that particular novelty. I still have a radio (several, actually) and one day when I have a larger piece of property I may even set up a reasonable HF station to participate in contests and the like but right now it's hard to justify spending time on a hobby that has little productive value at the end of the day.

crocodiletears 6y ago

This is why I've swerved off of getting into HAM. By popular perception (in my circles, and perception doesn't necessarily reflect reality) it's a chatroom for boomers (not necessarily a bad thing) waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), with a cost of entry of at least a hundred dollars for equipment that supports a fixed set of protocols with a very narrow use-case. Radio just seems top closed off to get into asanything other than a passive listener.

BenjiWiebe 6y ago
Mid 20's Extra here... Experimentation is totally allowed. Either the FCC will ignore the complaint, or you are actually outside the (very lenient) experimentation rules.
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  That's good to know. Any reccommended place to get started (assuming I already own an rtl-sdr)?
mywittyname 6y ago
> waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), This is what always kept me away from HAM Radios. Everyone I knew that was into it was a huge stickler about the rules and would talk about all the bad stuff that should happen to rule breakers. It was pretty unnerving.
- ezren 6y ago
  One of the express purposes of the amateur radio service is to facilitate experimentation and innovation in radio technology, and the FCC grants special licenses for that purpose all the time. There's a significant amount of harm you can do with a radio, so willfully causing interference to other radio services will earn you a hefty penalty. You should definitely get into amateur radio if you have an interest, and maybe look into some of the instances the FCC actually issued fines - if you're not out to cause harm you have nothing to worry about.

abruzzi 6y ago

I would agree that online there are a bunch of loud "get off my lawn" type voicer (I remember a published article on one of the bigger ham forums, where the guy bemoaned that a local ham club advertised a event as a "maker" event to appeal to young people, to him maker was for women, i.e. home maker.) But my local ham club was the most helpful, open, and interested group of people. Yes, they are mostly 65+ and some quite old, but they are doing new and interesting things, including many of the digital modes like the ones listed in the article. There is a group of about 5 of them, nicknamed the QRSS Mafia. They are using ultra low power (200mw and frequently less) to send signals to the opposite side of the planet. One of them was recieved 2500 miles away (New Mexico to Florida) on 8.5 microwatts. At the time it was the recorded world record for distance/power (on the planet, communicating with voyager 1 doesn't count.)

jdietrich 6y ago

Here in the UK, we've seen a huge surge in people - especially younger people - getting licensed since lockdown, in large part because it's now possible to take your license exams online. I think that the RSGB (our ARRL) had severely under-estimated the amount of friction in the old examination system and the amount of pent-up demand created by things like RTL-SDR.

m0xte 6y ago
That’ll be also because the local club usual incompetence can’t get in the way with social distancing. I had so much trouble even going back a few years getting my license because most folk can’t organise a piss up in a brewery. RSGB were little help. Eventually ML&S came through on this front with their training and examination courses which were excellent.

bobloblaw45 6y ago

My dad is/was a ham. My experience growing up with ham radio in the house was so negative that it's just kinda a turn off for me. Going back to the early 90s, for a lot of those old boomer types ham was mostly just a way to out-do eachother by showing off their rigs. It's kind of disappointing to me that they have this awesome technology they could have been taking to the next level but instead just spend hours whistling into the mic and bragging. In addition I got a sense that many of the old guys were actively working as gatekeepers as a way to stroke their own egos. These guys were a big part of the hobby for years and because of that the hobby has been stagnate. But from what it looks like it seems that they're swiftly being replaced by the newer generation of tinkerers in recent years which is pretty awesome.