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I can no longer configure "my machine" to use DNS a specific way; I have to configure my system plus a number of specific applications to use DNS the way I want

I can no longer configure "my machine" to use DNS a specific way; I have to configure my system plus a number of specific applications to use DNS the way I want. Splitting this configuration into multiple places is bad. In an enterprise/commercial setting, there are valid reasons for filtering employees' use of DNS (legal compliance, e.g.). I can no longer install e.g. PiHole to filter out ad servers globally for all devices on my network. These are some of the issues caused by DoH, I'm sure there are others.

Avamander 6y ago
> Splitting this configuration into multiple places is bad. This is because OSs are ossified. They need to move along or get left behind, they decided to be left behind. I'd also remind you that DNS wasn't very configurable even before, plenty of devices I've seen that ignore DHCP DNS, NTP and domain. Even if they should respect them. DoH is no exception to the general type of behaviour that already exists.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  This is because OSs are ossified. They need to move along or get left behind, they decided to be left behind. This type of position has the veneer of forward thinking, but it is precisely backward. The core value of an OS or a network protocol is consistency. Do not break things that work. Do not change what doesn't need changing.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > Do not break things that work. Do not change what doesn't need changing. Exactly. Things don't work, the only way to fix it is to change it. It has a few negative consequences but they're already here and standing still won't make it better. If OSs start having the features needed, the control will return. But as long as some people are dragging their feet, throwing tantrums, ignoring the large majority for which it's a positive change, it's going to be a tiresome long process.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > plenty of devices I've seen that ignore DHCP DNS, NTP and domain. Even if they should respect them. DoH is no exception to the general type of behaviour that already exists. Wait, your solution to buggy devices is to treat the bug as acceptable and deploy it more widely?!
  - Avamander 6y ago
    There's no removing or fixing those devices, there's billions of them out there.
nextaccountic 6y ago
Those issues aren't caused by DoH but by your OS tooling. In enterprise settings you can and should configure this once and replicate images for everyone. And you of course can configure your own software to use your own dns server. DoH just prevents you from hijacking someone else's dns.

Avamander 6y ago

> Splitting this configuration into multiple places is bad. This is because OSs are ossified. They need to move along or get left behind, they decided to be left behind. I'd also remind you that DNS wasn't very configurable even before, plenty of devices I've seen that ignore DHCP DNS, NTP and domain. Even if they should respect them. DoH is no exception to the general type of behaviour that already exists.

nitrogen 6y ago
This is because OSs are ossified. They need to move along or get left behind, they decided to be left behind. This type of position has the veneer of forward thinking, but it is precisely backward. The core value of an OS or a network protocol is consistency. Do not break things that work. Do not change what doesn't need changing.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > Do not break things that work. Do not change what doesn't need changing. Exactly. Things don't work, the only way to fix it is to change it. It has a few negative consequences but they're already here and standing still won't make it better. If OSs start having the features needed, the control will return. But as long as some people are dragging their feet, throwing tantrums, ignoring the large majority for which it's a positive change, it's going to be a tiresome long process.
yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> plenty of devices I've seen that ignore DHCP DNS, NTP and domain. Even if they should respect them. DoH is no exception to the general type of behaviour that already exists. Wait, your solution to buggy devices is to treat the bug as acceptable and deploy it more widely?!
- Avamander 6y ago
  There's no removing or fixing those devices, there's billions of them out there.

nextaccountic 6y ago

Those issues aren't caused by DoH but by your OS tooling. In enterprise settings you can and should configure this once and replicate images for everyone. And you of course can configure your own software to use your own dns server. DoH just prevents you from hijacking someone else's dns.