7 ms·

I can't believe this isn't something people are rallying for. Nor can I believe the mainstream media is hardly talking about it. The lessons from WWII aren't st

by krm01 6y ago

I can't believe this isn't something people are rallying for. Nor can I believe the mainstream media is hardly talking about it. The lessons from WWII aren't stories that we should memorise as fun trivia facts.

aww_dang 6y ago
It hasn't been widely covered outside of the anti-CCP sources. It seems to be gaining a bit of traction lately. If you are interested, Epoch times, BitterWinter and others have been covering this for a long time. Establishment media partisans aren't shy about using Nazi comparisons. Over the past year you would have been more likely to hear criticisms of US immigration policies painted in this light.
- rfoo 6y ago
  > Epoch times Friendly reminder that The Epoch Times is not a reliable news source, it promotes far-right politics in Germany, usually publishes conspiracy theories including QAnon, and was deprecated as a source by Wikipedia in 2019 [1], which means all edits containing links to The Epoch Times will be automatically reverted. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deprecated_sources#Currently_deprecated_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deprecated_sources#C...
  - logicchains 6y ago
    Just because something publishes conspiracy theories, doesn't mean it's always wrong. The US spying on its citizens was considered a conspiracy theory until Edward Snowden. A paedophile ring among the global elite was considered a conspiracy theory until Jeffrey Epstein. Most people in China would consider concentration camps in Xinjiang to be a conspiracy theory.
    - rfoo 6y ago
      > Just because something publishes conspiracy theories, doesn't mean it's always wrong. Of course. So I also mentioned the decision of Wikipedia community, at least they find the signal-to-noise ratio of The Epoch Times is low enough to be banned on their platform. > Most people in China would consider concentration camps in Xinjiang to be a conspiracy theory. Maybe. But as someone who fits your "people in China" criteria, I can add a data point: I myself and most of my friends actually don't consider the existence of these camps (or even forced labor) a conspiracy theory. We believe it. However we consider claims like "organ harvesting" a conspiracy theory. I'm unable to provide further insight on why we would think so though, so I guess you can claim I'm brainwashed, but I can say it would be much more complicated than that :-)
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Thanks for your concern. I checked the source on the Wikipedia article. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending... I didn't find any actual support for QANON in the article linked. After skimming it, it was simply a series of quotes from interviews with Q supporters. https://outline.com/DYKJKK https://outline.com/DYKJKK Wikipedia has become politically charged. If you know of any other sources covering breaking news about the CCP's abuses and intrigues, I would be happy to hear about them. Everyone has a bias. Adults should be capable of consuming information without gatekeepers deciding what is acceptable.
    - rfoo 6y ago
      In the article you linked, you can find mentions of QAnon near the end: > One such show is "Edge of Wonder," a verified YouTube channel that releases new NTD-produced videos twice every week and now has more than 33 million views. In addition to claims that alien abductions are real and the drug epidemic was engineered by the “deep state,” the channel pushes the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely posits that the same “Spygate” cabal is a front for a global pedophile ring being taken down by Trump. > One QAnon video, titled “#QANON - 7 facts the MEDIA (MSM) Won’t Admit” has almost 1 million views on YouTube. Other videos in the channel’s QAnon playlist, which include videos about 9/11 conspiracy theories and one titled “13 BLOODLINES & their Diabolical End Game,” gained hundreds of thousands of views each. > Travis View, a researcher and podcaster who studies the QAnon movement, said The Epoch Times has sanitized the conspiracy theory by pushing Spygate, which drops the wildest and more prurient details of QAnon while retaining its conspiratorial elements. Note that links between this Youtube channel and The Epoch Times is not obvious, but the article you linked already covered that. I've tried to verify the video [1], it seems to be taken down, but searching the link on Google resulted in various cross references on the Internet. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3KGT_YboSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3KGT_YboSA
      - aww_dang 6y ago
        This is a technique I often see from the fact-checking sources. A claim such as Spygate will be conflated with something more ridiculous like Q. The ridiculous is used to ridicule the first claim. In fairness, Spygate is currently being investigated by the DOJ. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/politics/kevin-clinesmith-durham-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/politics/kevin-clinesm... Attributing Spygate to Q is a convenient way to discredit it. Regardless, coverage of Spygate is not equivalent to propagating Q theories. The entire discussion digresses from the topic at hand.
  - mas3god 6y ago
    Russiagate is a conspiracy theory as well
- borg_ 6y ago
  > Epoch times ... I'm amazed by how brainwashed one has to be to regard Epoch times as a reliable outlet worthy of attention.
tobyhinloopen 6y ago
Are you rallying? I perfectly understand why people aren’t rallying: it’s happening on the other side of the planet. What are we supposed to do?
- waihtis 6y ago
  Meanwhile, Europe was filled with BLM protests.
  - genidoi 6y ago
    Systemic racism exists globally
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Because it was the hip thing to do.
    - EForEndeavour 6y ago
      Does the "hipness" of an idea that motivates legions of people to actively protest depend on the perceived average age and/or culture of said legions of people?
    - dwaltrip 6y ago
      ...Is your username using “gay” as an insult? I get it is “playful”, but a playful insult is still an insult. If so, I kindly encourage you to consider a new username. It is sad to see people slurred just based on who they are.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        Well thanks for phrasing that so nicely. I know it's offensive to some people but it's also exactly my kind of stupid humor. It's been a bit of a moral conundrum for me, I don't want to be an asshole to people who haven't done anything, but I also don't want to self censor. Currently though, for any new accounts that I create, I prefer another username anyway, but for this one, inertia is winning.
DrBazza 6y ago
Well... everyone could stop buying stuff on Amazon when you know it's mostly made in China, but then again everyone wants cheap 'stuff' (and iPhones).
- croes 6y ago
  And than? The whole system depends on cheap supply of goods. Look what happend during the lookdown in China And it's not people want cheap stuff, most only can afford cheap stuff. Money is a finite source, the more some people have, the less have others.
  - mas3god 6y ago
    We can get cheaper goods from other developing nations
    - croes 6y ago
      Lower quality or equal worse human rights. You need a lot of man power and environmental ignorance to feed our needs.
      - Nginx487 6y ago
        China became a synonym of low quality, whereas Vietnam has an experience of being production hub for Nokia in a best company's years. Also, there are few countries where situation with human rights worse than in China. In India and Vietnam it is definitely better.
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    We buy a lot more than what we need, and typically disposable versions of that stuff.
- maxwell 6y ago
  The U.S. could follow India and adopt mandatory country of origin declaration requirements for ecommerce sellers. [1, 2] Apple has shifted some manufacturing/assembly of iPhones to India, seemingly mostly for the local market [3] and perhaps EU [4], and AirPods to Vietnam [5]. 1. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/e-commerce-sites-must-state-country-of-origin-says-centre/article32166176.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/e-commerce-sites-must... 2. https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/e-commerce-rules-country-of-origin-labels-platforms-not-just-anti-china-atmanirbhar-bharat https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/e-commerce-rules-cou... 3. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/24/iphone-se-assembled-in-india https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/24/iphone-se-assembled-in-... 4. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/apple-exporting-iphone-india-europe/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/apple-exporting-iphone-... 5. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07/22/new-2021-airpods-and-airpods-pro-to-be-made-in-vietnam https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07/22/new-2021-airpods-...
banmeagaindan2 6y ago
What's happening with me is that I don't trust USA news sources on this topic. It is possible something is horrible is happening but there is so much propaganda people who might normally be concerned with this suspect it's a misdirection or scapegoating because of the US's catastrophic response to COVID19 It's the same reason a lot of right wing people who wouldn't be in favour of police brutalizing don't speak up - we become cynical and come to be believe we're being manipulated by selective reporting so when we should stand up for our values we don't because it looks like ceding ground to the enemy. Now my account will probably shadowbanned because of emotional HN users but I don't think I'm mistaken about why there is apathy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  Are they our values if we don’t stand up for them?
  - banmeagaindan2 6y ago
    Values! Let's talk about what is happening this minute. Somebody just talked to me and then disappeared. All sorts of people with political opinions are self editing and deleting their own comments - or being banned or shadowbanned because their opinions don't fit consensus. It is difficult for anybody to stand for their values in these conditions. China does not pretend to be a politically free society - but I believe I'd have a better shot freely talking about Western politics on a Chinese service than an American internet service today. People with my opinions are not a threat to the CCP - so I would be left alone. The number of times I've been banned for speaking simple opinions that just don't conform to the consensus of the hour is more than I can count. All from American web services. Even Sam Altman - who owns some of those services has said the same. It's the synchronization that is causing all the overreactions and underreactions to events.
    - chub500 6y ago
blindspot557 6y ago
Maybe because they are already rallying for BLM? Americans are too busy before the election.
- Razengan 6y ago
  BLM and US police brutality has already been replaced by the Belarusian protests, even in Wikipedia's Ongoing events. I guess everything's fine now.
  - mas3god 6y ago
    Maybe the world has shifted its gaze but BLM protests are still going strong out here
  - asdff 6y ago
    Uhh, people are marching on the capital right now

by krm01 6y ago

aww_dang 6y ago

It hasn't been widely covered outside of the anti-CCP sources. It seems to be gaining a bit of traction lately. If you are interested, Epoch times, BitterWinter and others have been covering this for a long time. Establishment media partisans aren't shy about using Nazi comparisons. Over the past year you would have been more likely to hear criticisms of US immigration policies painted in this light.

rfoo 6y ago
> Epoch times Friendly reminder that The Epoch Times is not a reliable news source, it promotes far-right politics in Germany, usually publishes conspiracy theories including QAnon, and was deprecated as a source by Wikipedia in 2019 [1], which means all edits containing links to The Epoch Times will be automatically reverted. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deprecated_sources#Currently_deprecated_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deprecated_sources#C...
- logicchains 6y ago
  Just because something publishes conspiracy theories, doesn't mean it's always wrong. The US spying on its citizens was considered a conspiracy theory until Edward Snowden. A paedophile ring among the global elite was considered a conspiracy theory until Jeffrey Epstein. Most people in China would consider concentration camps in Xinjiang to be a conspiracy theory.
  - rfoo 6y ago
    > Just because something publishes conspiracy theories, doesn't mean it's always wrong. Of course. So I also mentioned the decision of Wikipedia community, at least they find the signal-to-noise ratio of The Epoch Times is low enough to be banned on their platform. > Most people in China would consider concentration camps in Xinjiang to be a conspiracy theory. Maybe. But as someone who fits your "people in China" criteria, I can add a data point: I myself and most of my friends actually don't consider the existence of these camps (or even forced labor) a conspiracy theory. We believe it. However we consider claims like "organ harvesting" a conspiracy theory. I'm unable to provide further insight on why we would think so though, so I guess you can claim I'm brainwashed, but I can say it would be much more complicated than that :-)
- aww_dang 6y ago
  Thanks for your concern. I checked the source on the Wikipedia article. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending... I didn't find any actual support for QANON in the article linked. After skimming it, it was simply a series of quotes from interviews with Q supporters. https://outline.com/DYKJKK https://outline.com/DYKJKK Wikipedia has become politically charged. If you know of any other sources covering breaking news about the CCP's abuses and intrigues, I would be happy to hear about them. Everyone has a bias. Adults should be capable of consuming information without gatekeepers deciding what is acceptable.
  - rfoo 6y ago
    In the article you linked, you can find mentions of QAnon near the end: > One such show is "Edge of Wonder," a verified YouTube channel that releases new NTD-produced videos twice every week and now has more than 33 million views. In addition to claims that alien abductions are real and the drug epidemic was engineered by the “deep state,” the channel pushes the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely posits that the same “Spygate” cabal is a front for a global pedophile ring being taken down by Trump. > One QAnon video, titled “#QANON - 7 facts the MEDIA (MSM) Won’t Admit” has almost 1 million views on YouTube. Other videos in the channel’s QAnon playlist, which include videos about 9/11 conspiracy theories and one titled “13 BLOODLINES & their Diabolical End Game,” gained hundreds of thousands of views each. > Travis View, a researcher and podcaster who studies the QAnon movement, said The Epoch Times has sanitized the conspiracy theory by pushing Spygate, which drops the wildest and more prurient details of QAnon while retaining its conspiratorial elements. Note that links between this Youtube channel and The Epoch Times is not obvious, but the article you linked already covered that. I've tried to verify the video [1], it seems to be taken down, but searching the link on Google resulted in various cross references on the Internet. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3KGT_YboSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3KGT_YboSA
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      This is a technique I often see from the fact-checking sources. A claim such as Spygate will be conflated with something more ridiculous like Q. The ridiculous is used to ridicule the first claim. In fairness, Spygate is currently being investigated by the DOJ. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/politics/kevin-clinesmith-durham-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/politics/kevin-clinesm... Attributing Spygate to Q is a convenient way to discredit it. Regardless, coverage of Spygate is not equivalent to propagating Q theories. The entire discussion digresses from the topic at hand.
- mas3god 6y ago
  Russiagate is a conspiracy theory as well
borg_ 6y ago
> Epoch times ... I'm amazed by how brainwashed one has to be to regard Epoch times as a reliable outlet worthy of attention.

tobyhinloopen 6y ago

Are you rallying? I perfectly understand why people aren’t rallying: it’s happening on the other side of the planet. What are we supposed to do?

waihtis 6y ago
Meanwhile, Europe was filled with BLM protests.
- genidoi 6y ago
  Systemic racism exists globally
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  Because it was the hip thing to do.
  - EForEndeavour 6y ago
    Does the "hipness" of an idea that motivates legions of people to actively protest depend on the perceived average age and/or culture of said legions of people?
  - dwaltrip 6y ago
    ...Is your username using “gay” as an insult? I get it is “playful”, but a playful insult is still an insult. If so, I kindly encourage you to consider a new username. It is sad to see people slurred just based on who they are.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      Well thanks for phrasing that so nicely. I know it's offensive to some people but it's also exactly my kind of stupid humor. It's been a bit of a moral conundrum for me, I don't want to be an asshole to people who haven't done anything, but I also don't want to self censor. Currently though, for any new accounts that I create, I prefer another username anyway, but for this one, inertia is winning.

DrBazza 6y ago

Well... everyone could stop buying stuff on Amazon when you know it's mostly made in China, but then again everyone wants cheap 'stuff' (and iPhones).

croes 6y ago
And than? The whole system depends on cheap supply of goods. Look what happend during the lookdown in China And it's not people want cheap stuff, most only can afford cheap stuff. Money is a finite source, the more some people have, the less have others.
- mas3god 6y ago
  We can get cheaper goods from other developing nations
  - croes 6y ago
    Lower quality or equal worse human rights. You need a lot of man power and environmental ignorance to feed our needs.
    - Nginx487 6y ago
      China became a synonym of low quality, whereas Vietnam has an experience of being production hub for Nokia in a best company's years. Also, there are few countries where situation with human rights worse than in China. In India and Vietnam it is definitely better.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  We buy a lot more than what we need, and typically disposable versions of that stuff.
maxwell 6y ago
The U.S. could follow India and adopt mandatory country of origin declaration requirements for ecommerce sellers. [1, 2] Apple has shifted some manufacturing/assembly of iPhones to India, seemingly mostly for the local market [3] and perhaps EU [4], and AirPods to Vietnam [5]. 1. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/e-commerce-sites-must-state-country-of-origin-says-centre/article32166176.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/e-commerce-sites-must... 2. https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/e-commerce-rules-country-of-origin-labels-platforms-not-just-anti-china-atmanirbhar-bharat https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/e-commerce-rules-cou... 3. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/24/iphone-se-assembled-in-india https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/24/iphone-se-assembled-in-... 4. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/apple-exporting-iphone-india-europe/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/apple-exporting-iphone-... 5. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07/22/new-2021-airpods-and-airpods-pro-to-be-made-in-vietnam https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07/22/new-2021-airpods-...

banmeagaindan2 6y ago

What's happening with me is that I don't trust USA news sources on this topic. It is possible something is horrible is happening but there is so much propaganda people who might normally be concerned with this suspect it's a misdirection or scapegoating because of the US's catastrophic response to COVID19 It's the same reason a lot of right wing people who wouldn't be in favour of police brutalizing don't speak up - we become cynical and come to be believe we're being manipulated by selective reporting so when we should stand up for our values we don't because it looks like ceding ground to the enemy. Now my account will probably shadowbanned because of emotional HN users but I don't think I'm mistaken about why there is apathy.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
germinalphrase 6y ago
Are they our values if we don’t stand up for them?
- banmeagaindan2 6y ago
  Values! Let's talk about what is happening this minute. Somebody just talked to me and then disappeared. All sorts of people with political opinions are self editing and deleting their own comments - or being banned or shadowbanned because their opinions don't fit consensus. It is difficult for anybody to stand for their values in these conditions. China does not pretend to be a politically free society - but I believe I'd have a better shot freely talking about Western politics on a Chinese service than an American internet service today. People with my opinions are not a threat to the CCP - so I would be left alone. The number of times I've been banned for speaking simple opinions that just don't conform to the consensus of the hour is more than I can count. All from American web services. Even Sam Altman - who owns some of those services has said the same. It's the synchronization that is causing all the overreactions and underreactions to events.
  - chub500 6y ago

blindspot557 6y ago

Maybe because they are already rallying for BLM? Americans are too busy before the election.

Razengan 6y ago
BLM and US police brutality has already been replaced by the Belarusian protests, even in Wikipedia's Ongoing events. I guess everything's fine now.
- mas3god 6y ago
  Maybe the world has shifted its gaze but BLM protests are still going strong out here
- asdff 6y ago
  Uhh, people are marching on the capital right now