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Definitely bad and needs international attention. China’s soft power will ensure that most countries won’t go beyond the usual virtue signaling. Also keep in

by caffed 6y ago

Definitely bad and needs international attention. China’s soft power will ensure that most countries won’t go beyond the usual virtue signaling. Also keep in mind that the USA still has the most imprisoned people in the world by a large margin: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarce... https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/world_prison_population_list_11th_edition_0.pdf https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/...

ikerdanzel 6y ago
Do USA imprisonment do organ harvesting? Perhaps the current imprisonment really is just a front to solve organs shortage.
- rfoo 6y ago
  Do China imprisonment do organ harvesting?
  - TheUndead96 6y ago
    There is some evidence for this: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...
    - cocoggu 6y ago
      Although anything is possible, this is no evidence, and I hardly believe it. People lives are worthing much more than their organs when they are used for labor so I don't see any reasonable benefit from doing that. Plus, Falun Gong has a long history of fighting this, still without any evidences brought to the table, so I have some doubts about their assumptions. The issue in Xinjiang is already serious enough, no need to add some unconfirmed facts which may just make us lose credibility if they're proved fake.
      - dagenleg 6y ago
        > People lives are worthing much more than their organs when they are used for labor I absolutely disagree with this claim. Forced labor is inherently inefficient and barely cost-effective, especially in the modern age of mechanisation and the lessons of soviet GULAGs proved just as much. Especially so in China, which in no way suffers from a shortage of labor force.
        cocoggu 6y ago
        It's true that China doesn't suffer from a shortage of labor force. However, wages raised a lot, and almost-free labor is more interesting financially. After second thoughts, I think it may be possible that on a regional scale, local officials would find such practice highly profitable. The party goal is not to be highly profitable (they are already), it's to stay in power as long as they can. Of course money can help in that goal, but such practices, if they leak and are confirmed, would just erode the stability of the state. I feel the cons are too high and pros too low, politically, to do such atrocities on a country scale.
    - moogly 6y ago
      Better link, IMO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... There is a lot of evidence. In isolation, any one claim might not be very convincing, but taken as a whole, it's pretty damning.
- mola 6y ago
  They do use them as slave labor :/ US is awful, China is worse. As long as US ideals had any meaning or actual drive behind them, I could defend it as the lesser evil. Right now, its ideals have been subverted by a huge concentration of power in the hands of a few. They made the American ideal of freedom and democracy a joke. Some of the American people still consider human life sacred, but that's eroding. (btw, I believe this virtue is partisan blind)
alehul 6y ago
Does China include its secret camps in its prison numbers?
ajnin 6y ago
I doubt China's official figures include the so called "educational schools". If they did they'd easily top the chart. I mean, official USA figures probably don't include Guantanamo and black sites either but that's not the same magnitude.

by caffed 6y ago

ikerdanzel 6y ago

Do USA imprisonment do organ harvesting? Perhaps the current imprisonment really is just a front to solve organs shortage.

rfoo 6y ago
Do China imprisonment do organ harvesting?
- TheUndead96 6y ago
  There is some evidence for this: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...
  - cocoggu 6y ago
    Although anything is possible, this is no evidence, and I hardly believe it. People lives are worthing much more than their organs when they are used for labor so I don't see any reasonable benefit from doing that. Plus, Falun Gong has a long history of fighting this, still without any evidences brought to the table, so I have some doubts about their assumptions. The issue in Xinjiang is already serious enough, no need to add some unconfirmed facts which may just make us lose credibility if they're proved fake.
    - dagenleg 6y ago
      > People lives are worthing much more than their organs when they are used for labor I absolutely disagree with this claim. Forced labor is inherently inefficient and barely cost-effective, especially in the modern age of mechanisation and the lessons of soviet GULAGs proved just as much. Especially so in China, which in no way suffers from a shortage of labor force.
      - cocoggu 6y ago
        It's true that China doesn't suffer from a shortage of labor force. However, wages raised a lot, and almost-free labor is more interesting financially. After second thoughts, I think it may be possible that on a regional scale, local officials would find such practice highly profitable. The party goal is not to be highly profitable (they are already), it's to stay in power as long as they can. Of course money can help in that goal, but such practices, if they leak and are confirmed, would just erode the stability of the state. I feel the cons are too high and pros too low, politically, to do such atrocities on a country scale.
  - moogly 6y ago
    Better link, IMO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... There is a lot of evidence. In isolation, any one claim might not be very convincing, but taken as a whole, it's pretty damning.
mola 6y ago
They do use them as slave labor :/ US is awful, China is worse. As long as US ideals had any meaning or actual drive behind them, I could defend it as the lesser evil. Right now, its ideals have been subverted by a huge concentration of power in the hands of a few. They made the American ideal of freedom and democracy a joke. Some of the American people still consider human life sacred, but that's eroding. (btw, I believe this virtue is partisan blind)

alehul 6y ago

Does China include its secret camps in its prison numbers?

ajnin 6y ago

I doubt China's official figures include the so called "educational schools". If they did they'd easily top the chart. I mean, official USA figures probably don't include Guantanamo and black sites either but that's not the same magnitude.