5 ms·

Seems kind of misleading to post a github link that contains no code and it's actually nonfree software

by zelly 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago
This seems like it’s based on WebKit, parts of which are LGPL. Did they not modify it at all? (If so, why should I use this?) If they did, where is the code? Edit: I think it’s at https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore.
- adamjs 6y ago
  UL uses a fork of WebCore/JavaScriptCore (the layout engine and JavaScript engine from WebKit). It is indeed modified (been working on it 7 years) and released open-source on GitHub.
  - genocidicbunny 6y ago
    I noticed that the old Awesomium domains now redirect to the UL page. Is UL an evolution of Awesomium, or did you sort of start anew?
    - adamjs 6y ago
      Yep, We hit a wall when developing Awesomium-- long story short, the vision for Chromium long-term didn't match with our design goals so we announced to the community that we're starting over with something new (which turned out to be a minimal WebKit-port, eg. Ultralight). From a business standpoint, we were offering paid commercial support for not just Awesomium but all the Chromium-related parts and that surface area had grown to be way too large to be maintainable. For the product to succeed we had to refocus efforts on building a solution we could fully own and met the requirements of our core market-- and that took about 6 years of R&D.
viach 6y ago
The code is there, but not all of it, as I understood - except the "Proprietary GPU Renderer". And yes - "Ultralight is free for non-commercial use and free for commercial use by companies with less than $100K gross annual revenue"
- saagarjha 6y ago
  GitHub says the project is 100% CMake, and I didn’t see anything to make it ignore the large amount of C++ that I would expect to underlie this project. Do you know where I could find the parts you’re talking about? Edit: I found it, it’s in another repository at https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    You didn't look very hard. The commit message on the cMake.txt says: > Pruned repo history to get rid of 200MB of stale binaries. Repo has now been restructured to pull binaries in from S3 buckets during CMake build.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Those would be binaries, which I am not interested in. However, I did find the source I was looking for.
- monadic2 6y ago
  > GPU Renderer That seems rather important.
- Rochus 6y ago
  Not all code is there. The website https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/ says "No source code for proprietary modules" for the free version. If you want to use the technology in your free application then you tnerefore have to depend on a proprietary closed-source library. And as it seems only to save a bit of RAM. Better use Qt.
michannne 6y ago
Especially ridiculous considering they have a site, a very professional one, at that
- kristopolous 6y ago
  It's a shameless and transparent marketing play. People will click on a GitHub link. This is manufactured hn clickbait. I've never flagged before but this one deserves it I wish them well and the technology may be great, but trying to play hn like that is not welcome.
  - productionx 6y ago
    Noticed first comment, reviewed scope of project to place this being nearly identical to other project of which have availability to commercial use by default. Confirmed clickbait.
  - adamjs 6y ago
    Lead dev of UL here, we didn't post the link, and our GitHub repo is def not clickbait (the top-level repo is just the packager and samples), 90% of our code is open-source under LGPL and available on GitHub [1], [2]. The product as a whole is under a proprietary, non-free license with provisions for usage in free software [3]. * [1] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore * [2] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore * [3] https://ultralig.ht https://ultralig.ht
    - michannne 6y ago
      Thanks for the clarification!
- adamjs 6y ago
  Somebody just posted our top-level packager GitHub repo to HN instead of our website. (And hey thanks! I wrote that by hand a few months ago :))
bioipbiop 6y ago
The code is available under other repos on their account.
ecmascript 6y ago
Altough, their pricing is very fair imo. Free for non-commercial use. Free* for use by companies with less than $100K annual gross revenue.
- andi999 6y ago
  So how high is the pricing?
  - mijoharas 6y ago
    I'm guessing the parent comment is saying that the free tier is fair.
Rochus 6y ago
The website https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/ says "No source code for proprietary modules." for the free version. So it's technically not an open source project and therefore not a suitable candidate for my projects. Anyway the sole core benefit proposition compared to chrome seems to be less memory use.
adamjs 6y ago
Hi there, lead dev of UL here (we didn't post the link, HN just found our beta :)). That top-level repo is just our packager/samples, 90% of our code is open-source and available on GitHub (released under LGPL), see our WebCore [1] and AppCore [2] modules. The product as a whole contains two proprietary modules which are indeed non-free but allow free use in non-commercial and commercial projects up to $100K in gross revenue. * [1] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore * [2] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore

Seems kind of misleading to post a github link that contains no code and it's actually nonfree software

by zelly 6y ago

Seems kind of misleading to post a github link that contains no code and it's actually nonfree software

This seems like it’s based on WebKit, parts of which are LGPL. Did they not modify it at all? (If so, why should I use this?) If they did, where is the code? Edit: I think it’s at https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore.

adamjs 6y ago
UL uses a fork of WebCore/JavaScriptCore (the layout engine and JavaScript engine from WebKit). It is indeed modified (been working on it 7 years) and released open-source on GitHub.
- genocidicbunny 6y ago
  I noticed that the old Awesomium domains now redirect to the UL page. Is UL an evolution of Awesomium, or did you sort of start anew?
  - adamjs 6y ago
    Yep, We hit a wall when developing Awesomium-- long story short, the vision for Chromium long-term didn't match with our design goals so we announced to the community that we're starting over with something new (which turned out to be a minimal WebKit-port, eg. Ultralight). From a business standpoint, we were offering paid commercial support for not just Awesomium but all the Chromium-related parts and that surface area had grown to be way too large to be maintainable. For the product to succeed we had to refocus efforts on building a solution we could fully own and met the requirements of our core market-- and that took about 6 years of R&D.

viach 6y ago

The code is there, but not all of it, as I understood - except the "Proprietary GPU Renderer". And yes - "Ultralight is free for non-commercial use and free for commercial use by companies with less than $100K gross annual revenue"

saagarjha 6y ago
GitHub says the project is 100% CMake, and I didn’t see anything to make it ignore the large amount of C++ that I would expect to underlie this project. Do you know where I could find the parts you’re talking about? Edit: I found it, it’s in another repository at https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore.
- austincheney 6y ago
  You didn't look very hard. The commit message on the cMake.txt says: > Pruned repo history to get rid of 200MB of stale binaries. Repo has now been restructured to pull binaries in from S3 buckets during CMake build.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Those would be binaries, which I am not interested in. However, I did find the source I was looking for.
monadic2 6y ago
> GPU Renderer That seems rather important.
Rochus 6y ago
Not all code is there. The website https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/ says "No source code for proprietary modules" for the free version. If you want to use the technology in your free application then you tnerefore have to depend on a proprietary closed-source library. And as it seems only to save a bit of RAM. Better use Qt.

michannne 6y ago

Especially ridiculous considering they have a site, a very professional one, at that

kristopolous 6y ago
It's a shameless and transparent marketing play. People will click on a GitHub link. This is manufactured hn clickbait. I've never flagged before but this one deserves it I wish them well and the technology may be great, but trying to play hn like that is not welcome.
- productionx 6y ago
  Noticed first comment, reviewed scope of project to place this being nearly identical to other project of which have availability to commercial use by default. Confirmed clickbait.
- adamjs 6y ago
  Lead dev of UL here, we didn't post the link, and our GitHub repo is def not clickbait (the top-level repo is just the packager and samples), 90% of our code is open-source under LGPL and available on GitHub [1], [2]. The product as a whole is under a proprietary, non-free license with provisions for usage in free software [3]. * [1] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore * [2] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore * [3] https://ultralig.ht https://ultralig.ht
  - michannne 6y ago
    Thanks for the clarification!
adamjs 6y ago
Somebody just posted our top-level packager GitHub repo to HN instead of our website. (And hey thanks! I wrote that by hand a few months ago :))

bioipbiop 6y ago

The code is available under other repos on their account.

ecmascript 6y ago

Altough, their pricing is very fair imo. Free for non-commercial use. Free* for use by companies with less than $100K annual gross revenue.

andi999 6y ago
So how high is the pricing?
- mijoharas 6y ago
  I'm guessing the parent comment is saying that the free tier is fair.

Rochus 6y ago

The website https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/ says "No source code for proprietary modules." for the free version. So it's technically not an open source project and therefore not a suitable candidate for my projects. Anyway the sole core benefit proposition compared to chrome seems to be less memory use.

adamjs 6y ago

Hi there, lead dev of UL here (we didn't post the link, HN just found our beta :)). That top-level repo is just our packager/samples, 90% of our code is open-source and available on GitHub (released under LGPL), see our WebCore [1] and AppCore [2] modules. The product as a whole contains two proprietary modules which are indeed non-free but allow free use in non-commercial and commercial projects up to $100K in gross revenue. * [1] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/WebCore * [2] https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore https://github.com/ultralight-ux/AppCore