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A page comparing many many many translations of Beowulf: http://www.paddletrips.net/beowulf/html/journey.html http://www.paddletrips.net/beowulf/html/journey.ht

A page comparing many many many translations of Beowulf: http://www.paddletrips.net/beowulf/html/journey.html http://www.paddletrips.net/beowulf/html/journey.html One particular prose translation that I like: http://oaks.nvg.org/beowulf.html http://oaks.nvg.org/beowulf.html As an aside, I don't understand why people translating works of martial glory choose rap as the modern equivalent. People who actually fight in wars, from ancient times to now, tend to talk in "high" language.

StavrosK 6y ago
Soldiers talk in "high" language? You obviously don't watch the soldiers I watch.
voidhorse 6y ago
Interesting point, but recall these narratives were spoken by bards and inscribed by scholars and monks, not warriors. For the original authors, the tales of glory are the fantasy of victories they did not witness or commit but likely had to envision—just as modern rap is not the embodiment of power and wealth, but the fantasy and projection of power and wealth, the manifestation not of accomplishment, but of desire. Narrativity and fiction have more kinship with what one doesn’t have than what one does—the actual ancient warrior’s “narrative” were his captors, heads on pikes, or the enemies he let live to tell the tale. In some respects the poets are responsible for sublimating the brutal, material symbology of war into something cultural, something detached from the event itself.
082349872349872 6y ago
(a) Anglo-saxon poetry was beat-oriented and heavy on alliteration, wordplay, and external references. Why would rap[1] not be a suitable[2] choice? (b) "People who actually fight in wars ... have always spoken in a more dignified[3] way." Pray tell, in which country's military have you served? [1] it's done more than Milton could: popularised poetry in the hood. [2] A cousin thread mentions "... an age when the sword was as fair and just as the High Court is today," which reminds me that the gangsta subgenre is slightly fonder of popping caps than filing briefs. (Compare OG Sinatra's "My Way" for commercially successful overclass braggadocio. Or, more recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 ) [3] Those who prefer their argot middle class might try Nice Wicket Average's "Straight outta Surrey": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSflRlHPay4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSflRlHPay4
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Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> As an aside, I don't understand why people translating works of martial glory choose rap as the modern equivalent. People who actually fight in wars, from ancient times to now, tend to talk in "high" language. This isn’t borne out by the evidence. Homeric Greek, though a slight mixture of dialects because bards would travel from community to community performing it, probably would not have been seen as a "high language" by its original audience. The Kyrgyz Manas (the epic which can be readily compared to rap in both themes and, with many reciters, in the delivery) also isn’t appreciably “higher” than ordinary spoken Kyrgyz.
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arethuza 6y ago
'People who actually fight in wars, from ancient times to now, tend to talk in "high" language.' Most people I've known who were at the sharp end in wars tend to avoid talking about it at all.
morelisp 6y ago
Regardless of how you think soldiers then or now may speak, a rap battle is the extremely obvious modern corollary of any flyting.

StavrosK 6y ago

Soldiers talk in "high" language? You obviously don't watch the soldiers I watch.

voidhorse 6y ago

Interesting point, but recall these narratives were spoken by bards and inscribed by scholars and monks, not warriors. For the original authors, the tales of glory are the fantasy of victories they did not witness or commit but likely had to envision—just as modern rap is not the embodiment of power and wealth, but the fantasy and projection of power and wealth, the manifestation not of accomplishment, but of desire. Narrativity and fiction have more kinship with what one doesn’t have than what one does—the actual ancient warrior’s “narrative” were his captors, heads on pikes, or the enemies he let live to tell the tale. In some respects the poets are responsible for sublimating the brutal, material symbology of war into something cultural, something detached from the event itself.

082349872349872 6y ago

(a) Anglo-saxon poetry was beat-oriented and heavy on alliteration, wordplay, and external references. Why would rap[1] not be a suitable[2] choice? (b) "People who actually fight in wars ... have always spoken in a more dignified[3] way." Pray tell, in which country's military have you served? [1] it's done more than Milton could: popularised poetry in the hood. [2] A cousin thread mentions "... an age when the sword was as fair and just as the High Court is today," which reminds me that the gangsta subgenre is slightly fonder of popping caps than filing briefs. (Compare OG Sinatra's "My Way" for commercially successful overclass braggadocio. Or, more recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 ) [3] Those who prefer their argot middle class might try Nice Wicket Average's "Straight outta Surrey": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSflRlHPay4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSflRlHPay4

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Mediterraneo10 6y ago

> As an aside, I don't understand why people translating works of martial glory choose rap as the modern equivalent. People who actually fight in wars, from ancient times to now, tend to talk in "high" language. This isn’t borne out by the evidence. Homeric Greek, though a slight mixture of dialects because bards would travel from community to community performing it, probably would not have been seen as a "high language" by its original audience. The Kyrgyz Manas (the epic which can be readily compared to rap in both themes and, with many reciters, in the delivery) also isn’t appreciably “higher” than ordinary spoken Kyrgyz.

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arethuza 6y ago

'People who actually fight in wars, from ancient times to now, tend to talk in "high" language.' Most people I've known who were at the sharp end in wars tend to avoid talking about it at all.

morelisp 6y ago

Regardless of how you think soldiers then or now may speak, a rap battle is the extremely obvious modern corollary of any flyting.