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The US Government Keeps Harassing a UW Researcher Who Speaks for WikiLeaks

454 points by biafra 16y ago

_delirium 16y ago
Bay-Area hackers might also know him as a cofounder of Noisebridge, fwiw.
jevinskie 16y ago
It's simply disgusting, how the government can simply harass people without bringing any cases against them, preventing them from defending themselves.
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  It's also stupid. If anything it probably made him more determined to do what he's doing, and convinced him even more that what he's doing is right and necessary.
  - neilk 16y ago
    The point is to deter others. (See my comment elsewhere in this thread).
    - ioerror 16y ago
      That is not the only point. It is but one of many.
      - blhack 16y ago
        What do you think the other points are? To me, it looks like you're being made an example of. (Thanks, btw, the world needs more people willing to endure that)
        ioerror 16y ago
        Just off the top of my head? Some goals: to deter others, to extra-legally punish me personally, to pressure me into taking some kind of action that is subject to punishment, to upset others into action that is also subject to punishment, to profile me under stress, to monitor my associates as I am harassed, to watch the tactics or long term strategy, to attempt to provide comfort for these stresses (that's a weird story), and so. So yeah, they're trying to make an example of me but it's not limited to run ins with CBP. The ongoing legal issue with a specific microblog is another example. Visiting me when I give talks is another. There are others but I'm not comfortable discussing them at this time.
- mthsf 16y ago
  It can get far, far worse. Mitnick spent 4 years in a federal prison without being charged with a crime. Democracy and freedom is just the lie the government constantly bombards us with in order to keep us subdued and productive.
ghostDancer 16y ago
"Land of the free , home of the brave" but the government prefer to defend freedom of speech in other countries not in USA. It's the same song in almost all the western countries, we talk about democracy and human rights , but we support dictatorships all over the world, and forget about rights when we want.
- yuhong 16y ago
  Because they tried to make it confidential. I think it is a cultural problem, and the US gov is not the only culprit.
  - ghostDancer 16y ago
    You are rifgt the US gov is not the only one, that's why i say western world, cause here in Spain, for example ,is exactly the same, the gov has the mouth full of human rights and democracy but the dictator of Morocco is like the young brother of our king (yes Spain is a Kingdom in the XXI century) and our government is silent about the tortures and everything that happens on the Sahara. US gov is not the only one, the problem is that they are the ones talking louder about other countries like China not respecting human rights.
shareme 16y ago
Interesting side note: Did you know the law or precedent being cited that allows customs to seize computers, cell phones, etc can be circumvented by just fed-ex'ing the device across the border? Now tell me, if I know this than why cannot a suspect of illegal activities such as a Mobster, credit card phisher, etc do it? They already do it folks..
- kgo 16y ago
  I hate to pull a [CITATION NEEDED] but FedEx packages go through customs too. On what basis are they still allowed to seize drugs, money, counterfeit goods, weapons, but not an (alleged) terrorist's computer and cellphones? EDIT: I used to work with a guy who had $300 worth of Made-to-measure shirts from the UK seized by customs. If they can do that, I'm sure they can find a regulation that lets them seize a laptop.
  - bigiain 16y ago
    There's a difference though, at least if your fedexed laptop gets pulled for examination, the customs agents don't get to play their sadistic "make you pee your pants" game while they look at it... I'm seriously surprised the customs agents keep getting away with that. I'd like to think any Australian customs agent responsible for those sorts of tricks would very quickly be without a job and paying for his own defense lawyers... (And yeah, I'd probably be sadly disappointed in my own countries response to customs abuse of power too...)
    - kragen 16y ago
      > There's a difference though, at least if your fedexed laptop gets pulled for examination, the customs agents don't get to play their sadistic "make you pee your pants" game while they look at it... Another difference is that if your fedexed laptop gets opened and a hardware keylogger or rootkit inserted, you don't have any indication that anything untoward happened.
    - Maxious 16y ago
      I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but Australian Customs and Border Protection agents harass people too, specifically taking business documents, mobile phones, USB drive contents, demanding passwords where there is no legislated power to do so, not keeping records/track of the items seized: http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/files/customs_admin_of_coercive_powers_in_passenger_processing_report_15_2010.pdf http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/files/customs_admin_of_coercive_...
dhume 16y ago
I wonder how much of this it would take to get him to seek asylum in another country?
- TillE 16y ago
  Doesn't have to technically be asylum. Just get a job in Europe and leave. The exponentially increasing lawless behavior of the US over the past decade, particularly as it relates to its own citizens, is genuinely frightening.
  - ajays 16y ago
    But the US has long arms. See the harassment Assange is geting in UK and Sweden. Do you think the authorities there would be pursuing him so hard if he was just a random guy who slept around? Note: YES, I'm aware of the charges against him. Any impartial observer would label them as trumped up. Use of the word "rape" in an accusation doesn't make it more authentic.
- mtex 16y ago
  Appelbaum already tried that. Appelbaum was engaged to and tried to marry a Canadian photographer so that he could move to Canada. Back in the day he bragged to the media about becoming an expat, but soon she figured him out and refused to get married. Appelbaum also openly bragged to Rolling Stone magazine about having dozens of GFs around the world, yet he has never considered moving in with any of them. Rightly so, IMO no woman should have to put up with his drama-queen defeatism.
  - torpor 16y ago
    He certainly talks about himself a lot.
  - ioerror 16y ago
    Sorry, you're incorrect about why I am unmarried to a Canadian woman.
Bdennyw 16y ago
WTF is an Army officer doing intergating an American civilian at the airport? They have no jurisdiction or authority off base. Military activity in a civilian context should sacre the shit out of everyone.
- fleitz 16y ago
  I thought the founding fathers had something to say about standing armies. Standing armies should be disbanded and instead we should seek advice from the 2nd amendment as to how the gov't can best guarantee rights not delegated from the people.
  - ascendant 16y ago
    But this "war" on terror is an excuse for the government to continue to grant themselves "emergency" powers and give their friends in the defense industry hundreds of billions of dollars.
    - colinplamondon 16y ago
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTioaRXiSps&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTioaRXiSps&feature=relat... The fact that we crushed Al Qaeda in the opening years of the war doesn't diminish the threat that existed at the time. The Treasury Department essentially rewrote the rules of international finance in a matter of months, devastating their financing, and the followup in Afghanistan crippled them. This hasn't been a "war", it's been a War. The biggest problem is that we haven't gone far enough yet- security theater in the airports instead of Israeli-style real security. No screening of cargo containers. Virtually all American cities lack plans for how to deal with nuclear terrorism.
      - SamReidHughes 16y ago
        Here's a different take on "Israeli-style" security: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1909154 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1909154 Nuclear terrorism is not a realistic scenario, if only because it's much easier and much more terrorific to have a bunch of quadrotors dropping poison-tipped darts on a city.
deleted 16y ago
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- deleted 16y ago
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  - blhack 16y ago
    I'm having trouble coming up with reasons that this isn't appropriate for HN. A programmer, who just-so-happens to be a founder of noisebridge, is being harassed by the federal government for participating in an online newspaper. He's effectively being harassed for participating in the types of things that programmers participate in. Since this is hacker news, most of the people here are programmers, meaning most of the people here are interested in it, meaning that it's appropriate. tl;dr: programmers tend to be interested in news about programmers and how their activities as programmers can effect them. A parallel might be a musician being harassed by their government for writing anti-war songs, and a story about it being covered on a music website.
    - teyc 16y ago
      OK, the government is DDOSing him. This would be interesting if it were the 90s in the 4chan sort of way. Childish but technically uninteresting. PS. I don't buy the argument about publishing any news article related to programmers, especially if it is not related to the field of programming. For instance, if a programmer runs a meth lab and gets in trouble, is it necessarily hacker news material?
  - ihodes 16y ago
    I think people get tired of linking this. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - teyc 16y ago
      I can't tell you how excited I am in anticipation of Ron Paul news appearing on the front page of HN.
neilk 16y ago
You know what's really sad? I met a programmer the other day who works in a related field, and he categorically states he never wants to meet or correspond with Jake. He couldn't deal with the level of harassment that Jake is getting. And it is straight up harassment.
- ioerror 16y ago
  I get that often from a whole slew of people I wouldn't expect to be cowardly. It's really awkward to date when the n-th date involves a discussion of possible harassing police raids in the middle of the night.
  - andrewcooke 16y ago
    is there any way to help? apart from being generally sympathetic to the appropriate causes, donating to Tor, EFF, etc, is there anything that a bit more specific that people with the kind of skills that read HN can do?
    - mtex 16y ago
      "apart from being generally sympathetic to the appropriate causes, donating to Tor", there you go, that's what this whole threatre performance is about. Donating to Tor is not going to stop the DHS in any way, but you know, it certainly doesn't hurt Appelbaum's employer when you donate! As an aside, but nevertheless siginificant to point out, these trips of Appelbaum's are AFAIK business trips, not recreational trips. Appelbaum is traveling because his employer asked him to. So why isn't Appelbaum's employer Tor, or the University of Washington for that matter, taking the necessary steps to assist a traveling researcher/proselytizer? If Appelbaum's employer demands that he travel, isn't it Appelbaum's employer own responsibility to make sure an employee can travel, assisting him with a lawyer or a co-traveling escort? And why would an employer put up with all this, when the employer can just as well hire another proselytizer, one who is not associated with Wikileaks and who can cross borders with a lot less hassle? Sorry folks, it's just not adding up for me. (But your donations are certainly adding up for Tor!)
ioerror 16y ago
I'm flying back through Texas in a few hours from Serbia. I wonder if this article or any of the others will change the way that Customs and the rest of the Federal Government treat me? I'm guessing "no" - care to take any bets?
- mcantelon 16y ago
  The gov has enough influence in mainstream media, via corporate ownership and operative staff members, that they can mostly control the public narrative: so I'd also guess "no". If they ever lose control of the narrative, and your story maintains steam, they will likely attempt to discredit you via smear tactics.
- djcapelis 16y ago
  I wish I could bet you that media coverage would cause a quick change, but I fear it'd only make most of the current people dig in deeper and faster. It will, hopefully, eventually do something... I think the only thing that's going to change this is getting the right people in the right room to have the right quiet conversation to understand that they're inhibiting research and academic freedom with this nonsense. Unfortunately those types of conversations haven't happened much in the last three decades. The system is broken. Everytime I read about you coming home on your twitter I'm sad and angry. The types of things that happen to you aren't supposed to be how our country works, which happens sometimes, but shouldn't be happening here. Whenever I mention you around people who work for the government it is a conversation killer. It is rare to find someone who is given enough responsibility where they feel they can be anything but helpless even if they wanted to. (Which how could they not? I don't understand it. There has to be a hell of a classified file on you that paints a nice smear job so that these normally reasonable people can sleep at night.) The worst part is so few of the individuals in this mess are evil, it is the system that we've created that does the evil and the responsibility for this is widely distributed. You're getting screwed. I hope that changes. In the meantime... I hope they have a light touch in Texas.
- jberryman 16y ago
  Good luck and keep us updated on how it goes.
danenania 16y ago
These people are going to get theirs. The Arab revolts are eventually coming to America. Anonymous is just the beginning.
erikpukinskis 16y ago
I highly recommend the film "Trumbo", about the Oscar-winning screenwriter Dalton Trumbo, who was blacklisted for refusing to say whether or not he was, or ever had been, a member of the communist party. It is extremely relevant to all of this discussion, including the question of whether one should sacrifice the wellbeing and safety of one's family in order to promote a cause that's somewhat secondary to them. Lots of people lied under oath, or turned other people in in order to protect their families, because they didn't want to "risk it". But Trumbo and several others stood up for their right to free speech and paid dearly for it.
- ioerror 16y ago
  I'd also highly endorse reading Johnny Got His Gun.
- nitrogen 16y ago
  I haven't seen Trumbo, but the movie The Majestic also addresses this subject in a way that is very accessible.
- GvS 16y ago
  I recommend "Fair Game", it's related to this problem too.
zyfo 16y ago
What does the US Government gain by doing this? It's not obvious to me that the deterring of similar opinions being voiced really outweight the current and future negative publicity. It would be interesting to hear inside stories about what kind of conversations are going on on how to best handle Wikileaks. Perhaps via Wikileaks itself? Also, I'm very grateful that people like ioerror exists. Stay strong and best of luck.
- ascendant 16y ago
  They gain the effect it is having on other people. For every one of us that gets enraged at this sort of bullshit, there's 9 more that are terrified to speak out after seeing this. The problem with America is that unless we personally are being injured we see terrible things happening and just shrug and go on with our latte-sipping, BMW-driving lives. Our freedoms are slowly being eroded and no one really cares as long as they can keep watching TV and driving their fat asses to McDonalds every day. It's like the toad in the pot with the water getting hotter ever-so-slowly...
benlopez 16y ago
I would be more concerned if the government were not harassing him
colinplamondon 16y ago
I haven't heard a decent argument on how Wikileaks isn't a terrorist organization, and why the principal members aren't enemy combatants. The scattershot releases show that the goal is to hurt the US, not to affect change. There was real legitimate news in the releases so far- hidden in mounds of classified information that had no news value beyond exposing sources, risking lives, and slinging mud at the State Department. There's HUGE value in an organization like Wikileaks, as shown in Tunisia. Wikileaks itself, though, has shown that it is blatantly anti-American, risking the lives of our allies and sources. I really, really hope that one of the splinter groups takes off, with a bit more respect for the human cost of these kind of releases.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  "I haven't heard a decent argument on how Wikileaks isn't a terrorist organization" That's not how the justice system works. "Wikileaks itself, though, has shown that it is blatantly anti-American" So fucking what?
  - colinplamondon 16y ago
    People who operate against society always get screwed. That's the cost they take on by operating against society. They have the right to work against society- but that doesn't mean that they aren't watched, closely. KKK and neo-Nazis have the right to say whatever they want, but life is made difficult for them, and the ATF watches the shit out of them. In the same way, when someone participates in an organization that's going out of its way to acquire and distribute classified stuff, regardless of news value, but rather simply because it's there, I'd hope that our government would make life hard on them. Wikileaks is not engaging in journalism- it's engaging in infowar against America. That's not legally defined yet, and the legal ramifications have not been decided yet- but I hope that it is defined, and there are severe legal ramifications for it.
    - burgerbrain 16y ago
      "it's engaging in infowar against America. That's not legally defined yet" So what you're saying is that you're a fuckwad who's just making shit up? "Wikileaks is not engaging in journalism" In Your Opinion. There is a reason they haven't brought the law down on them, and have to resort to Mafia like tactics.
defroost 16y ago
Deterring future whistleblowers (as mentioned below) is why the Bradley Manning has essentially become a political prisoner who is being held in solitary confinement. It is why, as the article mentions, the DOJ issued a subpoena to Twitter for the personal info of 600,000 supporters. Fear. Fear is why Rep. Peter King talks about "labeling" WikiLeaks a "foreign terrorist organization". This article made me angry, but also sad, as I believe if we allow the government (in many cases we already have) to use tools like the Patriot Act as a kind of umbrella document to provide cover to go after normal American citizens - academia, free-speech advocates, journalists, hackers working on Tor - we allow an extremely dangerous precedent to be set that will likely lead to all kinds of future abuses of civil rights of people who simply want things like transparency in government. (I mean the real kind, not the kind you promise to implement when you are running for office). Anyway, Glen Greenwald gave an excellent talk on WikiLeaks and Why They Matter (55:00 minutes mark of video) He speaks eloquently on this very issue. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/09/wikileaks/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/09...
phlux 16y ago
If you haven't seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9xrO2Ch4Co http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9xrO2Ch4Co Its a great docu about wikileaks.
hammerdr 16y ago
This is likely to be unpopular. Here goes. Is it possible that Jacob is calling others "cowardly" because he wants to prove how brave he is? Taking a leadership role in a movement of moral prescience is at once commendable, laudable but also dangerous, onerous. I really appreciate what Jacob is doing by putting his face to the Wikileaks organization. It is something that I personally would not want to do. Wikileaks' stated goal is to "...be of assistance to people of all regions who wish to reveal unethical behaviour in their governments and corporations." In this, Jacob is succeeding. He is assuredly revealing this behavior through personal sacrifice. Part one is complete. Rejoice. Step two will be about knowledge. Now it is up to supporters of this cause to spread that information as far and as wide as possible. We've already seen the power of knowledge in this first quarter of 2011. A reality that wikileaks, twitter, the internet and the freedom of information has wrought. Instead of spreading this message, Jacob seems to sprinkle a bit of guilt and self aggrandizing. Maybe I am speaking out of turn because the only interaction with Jacob I have is seen in here in this thread. However, let's take a step back from our Jacob- and self-imposed guilt and execute the next stage. Edit: By all means we should empathize with Jacob and try to understand his sacrifice. We do not, however, all have to be martyrs in order to be Good(tm).
- Pahalial 16y ago
  What? How does this.. what? You seem to contradict yourself: you admit he is spreading knowledge of the governments' misbehavior (and that this is a laudable thing) and then.. question mark? Upon 5th reread: are you actually accusing him of falsely accusing others of cowardice for self-aggrandizement because these 'others' (aka: us) are not spreading the word of governmental misbehavior fast enough? I seriously can't see any other statement in your comment, and it seems like even the anti-Jacob sentiment I quote above died after the third sentence - I'm just trying to string a single thought through the whole comment. Please clarify.
- gitarr 16y ago
  I think people who stand on the side lines and do not take part in movements that have an open and objectively good cause could be called part of the problem by not doing anything. Let me give an example: In my country, when a motorist witnesses an accident with injured people, he is required by law to provide first aid to the injured and call additional help to the scene. Needless to say, first aid education is required when applying for a drivers license here. Some people will help if they see injured people on the side of the road and some people will not. I call the latter cowards and they are doing harm by not providing timely help or even call for professional help. People die because other people look away and ignore them. Now, I think what ioerror is doing is brave, and everybody not doing the same or more is a coward (including me, I'd like to do more, yet all I can do is trying to make information available to as many people as possible). He does not look away. Bradley Manning did not look away. He is the one who is the bravest man in this equation. He knew what he did would have consequences, yet looking away while innocent people get mown down video-game stile needs a special kind of ignorance and evil to be able to ignore or even call it OK. The US government is able to do that at the moment including large parts of the population. Cowards, all of them.
cabalamat 16y ago
This sounds like the sort of harassment that would happen to people in dodgy countries with poor human rights records. And the truth is, America isn't a democracy under the rule of law, it's a nasty vicious oligarchy that denies human rights to its citizens while hypocritically lecturing other countries on those rights.
BasDirks 16y ago
Quick, let's change the subject to China's human right abuse!
thangalin 16y ago
https://sites.google.com/site/pfcmanning/ https://sites.google.com/site/pfcmanning/ An open letter to President Obama on retaliation against whistleblowers.
ebaysucks 16y ago
And this is why I just won't visit the USA anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love the principles your country was founded upon, but somehow you turned into testicle grabbing sociopaths.
mtex 16y ago
Julian Assange urges people to take a "scientific" approach to media reports, and to ask to see the primary documents. Well, allow me to be "scientific" with regards to all these reports about Jacob Appelbaum's customs&border issues right now: has Appelbaum ever published his correspondence with the DHS? His FOIA requests? Denial letters he has received from government agencies, the DHS, the TSA, CBP, ICE? The answer is no, no and no. There is no way to verify "scientifically" any of his statements. All we have are Appelbaum's claims on Twitter that "I was told by the G-man that Obama himself has a problem with me"... seriously, how can someone who claims to be a hacker believe such a statement, straight from the mouth of a government goon, cos hey, we all know the G-men never ever lie or exaggerate in order to intimidate, right? Still, no documentation whatsoever, no correspondence between Appelbaum and the DHS. Again, think what you will about Obama allegedly having a personal problem with Appelbaum, this is just not adding up for me.
nika 16y ago
How many reading this article, and are disgusted by these clearly unconstitutional actions, are still living in the USA? How many of you are paying taxes to the very government that is using this money to fund this harassment, among other illegal activities? You're providing material support to a terrorist organization! (presuming some number of harassed people are terrorized by the harassment.) What are you doing to compensate for this material support? Are you going to stop it, withdraw your support? Or are you going to expend energy to compensate for the aiding these oppressors? This is a rhetorical question. I've my own answer, and I hope you have yours.
- spicycat 16y ago
  It's not as easy to move out of the country as you seem to think, for a lot of us. Yes, it really is disturbing that I now live in a country that tortures people, and holds them for years without any trial at all. It's disturbing that it seems that humans are getting to be less and less important to our government than corporations all the time. Still, what can I do? I'm disabled, and dependent on the government for survival. The only way I'm going to be able to get out of this country is by dying.

454 points by biafra 16y ago

Bay-Area hackers might also know him as a cofounder of Noisebridge, fwiw.

It's simply disgusting, how the government can simply harass people without bringing any cases against them, preventing them from defending themselves.

mike-cardwell 16y ago
It's also stupid. If anything it probably made him more determined to do what he's doing, and convinced him even more that what he's doing is right and necessary.
- neilk 16y ago
  The point is to deter others. (See my comment elsewhere in this thread).
  - ioerror 16y ago
    That is not the only point. It is but one of many.
    - blhack 16y ago
      What do you think the other points are? To me, it looks like you're being made an example of. (Thanks, btw, the world needs more people willing to endure that)
      - ioerror 16y ago
        Just off the top of my head? Some goals: to deter others, to extra-legally punish me personally, to pressure me into taking some kind of action that is subject to punishment, to upset others into action that is also subject to punishment, to profile me under stress, to monitor my associates as I am harassed, to watch the tactics or long term strategy, to attempt to provide comfort for these stresses (that's a weird story), and so. So yeah, they're trying to make an example of me but it's not limited to run ins with CBP. The ongoing legal issue with a specific microblog is another example. Visiting me when I give talks is another. There are others but I'm not comfortable discussing them at this time.
mthsf 16y ago
It can get far, far worse. Mitnick spent 4 years in a federal prison without being charged with a crime. Democracy and freedom is just the lie the government constantly bombards us with in order to keep us subdued and productive.

ghostDancer 16y ago

"Land of the free , home of the brave" but the government prefer to defend freedom of speech in other countries not in USA. It's the same song in almost all the western countries, we talk about democracy and human rights , but we support dictatorships all over the world, and forget about rights when we want.

yuhong 16y ago
Because they tried to make it confidential. I think it is a cultural problem, and the US gov is not the only culprit.
- ghostDancer 16y ago
  You are rifgt the US gov is not the only one, that's why i say western world, cause here in Spain, for example ,is exactly the same, the gov has the mouth full of human rights and democracy but the dictator of Morocco is like the young brother of our king (yes Spain is a Kingdom in the XXI century) and our government is silent about the tortures and everything that happens on the Sahara. US gov is not the only one, the problem is that they are the ones talking louder about other countries like China not respecting human rights.

shareme 16y ago

Interesting side note: Did you know the law or precedent being cited that allows customs to seize computers, cell phones, etc can be circumvented by just fed-ex'ing the device across the border? Now tell me, if I know this than why cannot a suspect of illegal activities such as a Mobster, credit card phisher, etc do it? They already do it folks..

kgo 16y ago
I hate to pull a [CITATION NEEDED] but FedEx packages go through customs too. On what basis are they still allowed to seize drugs, money, counterfeit goods, weapons, but not an (alleged) terrorist's computer and cellphones? EDIT: I used to work with a guy who had $300 worth of Made-to-measure shirts from the UK seized by customs. If they can do that, I'm sure they can find a regulation that lets them seize a laptop.
- bigiain 16y ago
  There's a difference though, at least if your fedexed laptop gets pulled for examination, the customs agents don't get to play their sadistic "make you pee your pants" game while they look at it... I'm seriously surprised the customs agents keep getting away with that. I'd like to think any Australian customs agent responsible for those sorts of tricks would very quickly be without a job and paying for his own defense lawyers... (And yeah, I'd probably be sadly disappointed in my own countries response to customs abuse of power too...)
  - kragen 16y ago
    > There's a difference though, at least if your fedexed laptop gets pulled for examination, the customs agents don't get to play their sadistic "make you pee your pants" game while they look at it... Another difference is that if your fedexed laptop gets opened and a hardware keylogger or rootkit inserted, you don't have any indication that anything untoward happened.
  - Maxious 16y ago
    I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but Australian Customs and Border Protection agents harass people too, specifically taking business documents, mobile phones, USB drive contents, demanding passwords where there is no legislated power to do so, not keeping records/track of the items seized: http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/files/customs_admin_of_coercive_powers_in_passenger_processing_report_15_2010.pdf http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/files/customs_admin_of_coercive_...

dhume 16y ago

I wonder how much of this it would take to get him to seek asylum in another country?

TillE 16y ago
Doesn't have to technically be asylum. Just get a job in Europe and leave. The exponentially increasing lawless behavior of the US over the past decade, particularly as it relates to its own citizens, is genuinely frightening.
- ajays 16y ago
  But the US has long arms. See the harassment Assange is geting in UK and Sweden. Do you think the authorities there would be pursuing him so hard if he was just a random guy who slept around? Note: YES, I'm aware of the charges against him. Any impartial observer would label them as trumped up. Use of the word "rape" in an accusation doesn't make it more authentic.
mtex 16y ago
Appelbaum already tried that. Appelbaum was engaged to and tried to marry a Canadian photographer so that he could move to Canada. Back in the day he bragged to the media about becoming an expat, but soon she figured him out and refused to get married. Appelbaum also openly bragged to Rolling Stone magazine about having dozens of GFs around the world, yet he has never considered moving in with any of them. Rightly so, IMO no woman should have to put up with his drama-queen defeatism.
- torpor 16y ago
  He certainly talks about himself a lot.
- ioerror 16y ago
  Sorry, you're incorrect about why I am unmarried to a Canadian woman.

Bdennyw 16y ago

WTF is an Army officer doing intergating an American civilian at the airport? They have no jurisdiction or authority off base. Military activity in a civilian context should sacre the shit out of everyone.

fleitz 16y ago
I thought the founding fathers had something to say about standing armies. Standing armies should be disbanded and instead we should seek advice from the 2nd amendment as to how the gov't can best guarantee rights not delegated from the people.
- ascendant 16y ago
  But this "war" on terror is an excuse for the government to continue to grant themselves "emergency" powers and give their friends in the defense industry hundreds of billions of dollars.
  - colinplamondon 16y ago
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTioaRXiSps&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTioaRXiSps&feature=relat... The fact that we crushed Al Qaeda in the opening years of the war doesn't diminish the threat that existed at the time. The Treasury Department essentially rewrote the rules of international finance in a matter of months, devastating their financing, and the followup in Afghanistan crippled them. This hasn't been a "war", it's been a War. The biggest problem is that we haven't gone far enough yet- security theater in the airports instead of Israeli-style real security. No screening of cargo containers. Virtually all American cities lack plans for how to deal with nuclear terrorism.
    - SamReidHughes 16y ago
      Here's a different take on "Israeli-style" security: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1909154 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1909154 Nuclear terrorism is not a realistic scenario, if only because it's much easier and much more terrorific to have a bunch of quadrotors dropping poison-tipped darts on a city.

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- blhack 16y ago
  I'm having trouble coming up with reasons that this isn't appropriate for HN. A programmer, who just-so-happens to be a founder of noisebridge, is being harassed by the federal government for participating in an online newspaper. He's effectively being harassed for participating in the types of things that programmers participate in. Since this is hacker news, most of the people here are programmers, meaning most of the people here are interested in it, meaning that it's appropriate. tl;dr: programmers tend to be interested in news about programmers and how their activities as programmers can effect them. A parallel might be a musician being harassed by their government for writing anti-war songs, and a story about it being covered on a music website.
  - teyc 16y ago
    OK, the government is DDOSing him. This would be interesting if it were the 90s in the 4chan sort of way. Childish but technically uninteresting. PS. I don't buy the argument about publishing any news article related to programmers, especially if it is not related to the field of programming. For instance, if a programmer runs a meth lab and gets in trouble, is it necessarily hacker news material?
- ihodes 16y ago
  I think people get tired of linking this. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - teyc 16y ago
    I can't tell you how excited I am in anticipation of Ron Paul news appearing on the front page of HN.

neilk 16y ago

You know what's really sad? I met a programmer the other day who works in a related field, and he categorically states he never wants to meet or correspond with Jake. He couldn't deal with the level of harassment that Jake is getting. And it is straight up harassment.

ioerror 16y ago
I get that often from a whole slew of people I wouldn't expect to be cowardly. It's really awkward to date when the n-th date involves a discussion of possible harassing police raids in the middle of the night.
- andrewcooke 16y ago
  is there any way to help? apart from being generally sympathetic to the appropriate causes, donating to Tor, EFF, etc, is there anything that a bit more specific that people with the kind of skills that read HN can do?
  - mtex 16y ago
    "apart from being generally sympathetic to the appropriate causes, donating to Tor", there you go, that's what this whole threatre performance is about. Donating to Tor is not going to stop the DHS in any way, but you know, it certainly doesn't hurt Appelbaum's employer when you donate! As an aside, but nevertheless siginificant to point out, these trips of Appelbaum's are AFAIK business trips, not recreational trips. Appelbaum is traveling because his employer asked him to. So why isn't Appelbaum's employer Tor, or the University of Washington for that matter, taking the necessary steps to assist a traveling researcher/proselytizer? If Appelbaum's employer demands that he travel, isn't it Appelbaum's employer own responsibility to make sure an employee can travel, assisting him with a lawyer or a co-traveling escort? And why would an employer put up with all this, when the employer can just as well hire another proselytizer, one who is not associated with Wikileaks and who can cross borders with a lot less hassle? Sorry folks, it's just not adding up for me. (But your donations are certainly adding up for Tor!)

ioerror 16y ago

I'm flying back through Texas in a few hours from Serbia. I wonder if this article or any of the others will change the way that Customs and the rest of the Federal Government treat me? I'm guessing "no" - care to take any bets?

mcantelon 16y ago
The gov has enough influence in mainstream media, via corporate ownership and operative staff members, that they can mostly control the public narrative: so I'd also guess "no". If they ever lose control of the narrative, and your story maintains steam, they will likely attempt to discredit you via smear tactics.
djcapelis 16y ago
I wish I could bet you that media coverage would cause a quick change, but I fear it'd only make most of the current people dig in deeper and faster. It will, hopefully, eventually do something... I think the only thing that's going to change this is getting the right people in the right room to have the right quiet conversation to understand that they're inhibiting research and academic freedom with this nonsense. Unfortunately those types of conversations haven't happened much in the last three decades. The system is broken. Everytime I read about you coming home on your twitter I'm sad and angry. The types of things that happen to you aren't supposed to be how our country works, which happens sometimes, but shouldn't be happening here. Whenever I mention you around people who work for the government it is a conversation killer. It is rare to find someone who is given enough responsibility where they feel they can be anything but helpless even if they wanted to. (Which how could they not? I don't understand it. There has to be a hell of a classified file on you that paints a nice smear job so that these normally reasonable people can sleep at night.) The worst part is so few of the individuals in this mess are evil, it is the system that we've created that does the evil and the responsibility for this is widely distributed. You're getting screwed. I hope that changes. In the meantime... I hope they have a light touch in Texas.
jberryman 16y ago
Good luck and keep us updated on how it goes.

danenania 16y ago

These people are going to get theirs. The Arab revolts are eventually coming to America. Anonymous is just the beginning.

erikpukinskis 16y ago

I highly recommend the film "Trumbo", about the Oscar-winning screenwriter Dalton Trumbo, who was blacklisted for refusing to say whether or not he was, or ever had been, a member of the communist party. It is extremely relevant to all of this discussion, including the question of whether one should sacrifice the wellbeing and safety of one's family in order to promote a cause that's somewhat secondary to them. Lots of people lied under oath, or turned other people in in order to protect their families, because they didn't want to "risk it". But Trumbo and several others stood up for their right to free speech and paid dearly for it.

ioerror 16y ago
I'd also highly endorse reading Johnny Got His Gun.
nitrogen 16y ago
I haven't seen Trumbo, but the movie The Majestic also addresses this subject in a way that is very accessible.
GvS 16y ago
I recommend "Fair Game", it's related to this problem too.

zyfo 16y ago

What does the US Government gain by doing this? It's not obvious to me that the deterring of similar opinions being voiced really outweight the current and future negative publicity. It would be interesting to hear inside stories about what kind of conversations are going on on how to best handle Wikileaks. Perhaps via Wikileaks itself? Also, I'm very grateful that people like ioerror exists. Stay strong and best of luck.

ascendant 16y ago
They gain the effect it is having on other people. For every one of us that gets enraged at this sort of bullshit, there's 9 more that are terrified to speak out after seeing this. The problem with America is that unless we personally are being injured we see terrible things happening and just shrug and go on with our latte-sipping, BMW-driving lives. Our freedoms are slowly being eroded and no one really cares as long as they can keep watching TV and driving their fat asses to McDonalds every day. It's like the toad in the pot with the water getting hotter ever-so-slowly...

benlopez 16y ago

I would be more concerned if the government were not harassing him

colinplamondon 16y ago

I haven't heard a decent argument on how Wikileaks isn't a terrorist organization, and why the principal members aren't enemy combatants. The scattershot releases show that the goal is to hurt the US, not to affect change. There was real legitimate news in the releases so far- hidden in mounds of classified information that had no news value beyond exposing sources, risking lives, and slinging mud at the State Department. There's HUGE value in an organization like Wikileaks, as shown in Tunisia. Wikileaks itself, though, has shown that it is blatantly anti-American, risking the lives of our allies and sources. I really, really hope that one of the splinter groups takes off, with a bit more respect for the human cost of these kind of releases.

burgerbrain 16y ago
"I haven't heard a decent argument on how Wikileaks isn't a terrorist organization" That's not how the justice system works. "Wikileaks itself, though, has shown that it is blatantly anti-American" So fucking what?
- colinplamondon 16y ago
  People who operate against society always get screwed. That's the cost they take on by operating against society. They have the right to work against society- but that doesn't mean that they aren't watched, closely. KKK and neo-Nazis have the right to say whatever they want, but life is made difficult for them, and the ATF watches the shit out of them. In the same way, when someone participates in an organization that's going out of its way to acquire and distribute classified stuff, regardless of news value, but rather simply because it's there, I'd hope that our government would make life hard on them. Wikileaks is not engaging in journalism- it's engaging in infowar against America. That's not legally defined yet, and the legal ramifications have not been decided yet- but I hope that it is defined, and there are severe legal ramifications for it.
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    "it's engaging in infowar against America. That's not legally defined yet" So what you're saying is that you're a fuckwad who's just making shit up? "Wikileaks is not engaging in journalism" In Your Opinion. There is a reason they haven't brought the law down on them, and have to resort to Mafia like tactics.

defroost 16y ago

Deterring future whistleblowers (as mentioned below) is why the Bradley Manning has essentially become a political prisoner who is being held in solitary confinement. It is why, as the article mentions, the DOJ issued a subpoena to Twitter for the personal info of 600,000 supporters. Fear. Fear is why Rep. Peter King talks about "labeling" WikiLeaks a "foreign terrorist organization". This article made me angry, but also sad, as I believe if we allow the government (in many cases we already have) to use tools like the Patriot Act as a kind of umbrella document to provide cover to go after normal American citizens - academia, free-speech advocates, journalists, hackers working on Tor - we allow an extremely dangerous precedent to be set that will likely lead to all kinds of future abuses of civil rights of people who simply want things like transparency in government. (I mean the real kind, not the kind you promise to implement when you are running for office). Anyway, Glen Greenwald gave an excellent talk on WikiLeaks and Why They Matter (55:00 minutes mark of video) He speaks eloquently on this very issue. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/09/wikileaks/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/09...

phlux 16y ago

If you haven't seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9xrO2Ch4Co http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9xrO2Ch4Co Its a great docu about wikileaks.

hammerdr 16y ago

This is likely to be unpopular. Here goes. Is it possible that Jacob is calling others "cowardly" because he wants to prove how brave he is? Taking a leadership role in a movement of moral prescience is at once commendable, laudable but also dangerous, onerous. I really appreciate what Jacob is doing by putting his face to the Wikileaks organization. It is something that I personally would not want to do. Wikileaks' stated goal is to "...be of assistance to people of all regions who wish to reveal unethical behaviour in their governments and corporations." In this, Jacob is succeeding. He is assuredly revealing this behavior through personal sacrifice. Part one is complete. Rejoice. Step two will be about knowledge. Now it is up to supporters of this cause to spread that information as far and as wide as possible. We've already seen the power of knowledge in this first quarter of 2011. A reality that wikileaks, twitter, the internet and the freedom of information has wrought. Instead of spreading this message, Jacob seems to sprinkle a bit of guilt and self aggrandizing. Maybe I am speaking out of turn because the only interaction with Jacob I have is seen in here in this thread. However, let's take a step back from our Jacob- and self-imposed guilt and execute the next stage. Edit: By all means we should empathize with Jacob and try to understand his sacrifice. We do not, however, all have to be martyrs in order to be Good(tm).

Pahalial 16y ago
What? How does this.. what? You seem to contradict yourself: you admit he is spreading knowledge of the governments' misbehavior (and that this is a laudable thing) and then.. question mark? Upon 5th reread: are you actually accusing him of falsely accusing others of cowardice for self-aggrandizement because these 'others' (aka: us) are not spreading the word of governmental misbehavior fast enough? I seriously can't see any other statement in your comment, and it seems like even the anti-Jacob sentiment I quote above died after the third sentence - I'm just trying to string a single thought through the whole comment. Please clarify.
gitarr 16y ago
I think people who stand on the side lines and do not take part in movements that have an open and objectively good cause could be called part of the problem by not doing anything. Let me give an example: In my country, when a motorist witnesses an accident with injured people, he is required by law to provide first aid to the injured and call additional help to the scene. Needless to say, first aid education is required when applying for a drivers license here. Some people will help if they see injured people on the side of the road and some people will not. I call the latter cowards and they are doing harm by not providing timely help or even call for professional help. People die because other people look away and ignore them. Now, I think what ioerror is doing is brave, and everybody not doing the same or more is a coward (including me, I'd like to do more, yet all I can do is trying to make information available to as many people as possible). He does not look away. Bradley Manning did not look away. He is the one who is the bravest man in this equation. He knew what he did would have consequences, yet looking away while innocent people get mown down video-game stile needs a special kind of ignorance and evil to be able to ignore or even call it OK. The US government is able to do that at the moment including large parts of the population. Cowards, all of them.

cabalamat 16y ago

This sounds like the sort of harassment that would happen to people in dodgy countries with poor human rights records. And the truth is, America isn't a democracy under the rule of law, it's a nasty vicious oligarchy that denies human rights to its citizens while hypocritically lecturing other countries on those rights.

BasDirks 16y ago

Quick, let's change the subject to China's human right abuse!

thangalin 16y ago

https://sites.google.com/site/pfcmanning/ https://sites.google.com/site/pfcmanning/ An open letter to President Obama on retaliation against whistleblowers.

ebaysucks 16y ago

And this is why I just won't visit the USA anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love the principles your country was founded upon, but somehow you turned into testicle grabbing sociopaths.

mtex 16y ago

Julian Assange urges people to take a "scientific" approach to media reports, and to ask to see the primary documents. Well, allow me to be "scientific" with regards to all these reports about Jacob Appelbaum's customs&border issues right now: has Appelbaum ever published his correspondence with the DHS? His FOIA requests? Denial letters he has received from government agencies, the DHS, the TSA, CBP, ICE? The answer is no, no and no. There is no way to verify "scientifically" any of his statements. All we have are Appelbaum's claims on Twitter that "I was told by the G-man that Obama himself has a problem with me"... seriously, how can someone who claims to be a hacker believe such a statement, straight from the mouth of a government goon, cos hey, we all know the G-men never ever lie or exaggerate in order to intimidate, right? Still, no documentation whatsoever, no correspondence between Appelbaum and the DHS. Again, think what you will about Obama allegedly having a personal problem with Appelbaum, this is just not adding up for me.

nika 16y ago

How many reading this article, and are disgusted by these clearly unconstitutional actions, are still living in the USA? How many of you are paying taxes to the very government that is using this money to fund this harassment, among other illegal activities? You're providing material support to a terrorist organization! (presuming some number of harassed people are terrorized by the harassment.) What are you doing to compensate for this material support? Are you going to stop it, withdraw your support? Or are you going to expend energy to compensate for the aiding these oppressors? This is a rhetorical question. I've my own answer, and I hope you have yours.

spicycat 16y ago
It's not as easy to move out of the country as you seem to think, for a lot of us. Yes, it really is disturbing that I now live in a country that tortures people, and holds them for years without any trial at all. It's disturbing that it seems that humans are getting to be less and less important to our government than corporations all the time. Still, what can I do? I'm disabled, and dependent on the government for survival. The only way I'm going to be able to get out of this country is by dying.